there is no DOM. the DOM is a lie.

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vbgunz - 30 Oct 2007 17:16 GMT

I wish there was a real DOM. the one true way to work across all
browsers but unfortunately, there is no DOM. I don't wish to pick up a
library just yet but do feel if I am learning anything, it is that I
will have no choice if I would like to be productive.

how do you learn to script and target the latest browsers (Firefox 2,
Internet Explorer 6 & 7 and Opera 9) in as little redundancy as
possible but in a way in which all browsers are satisfied?

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Ivan Marsh - 30 Oct 2007 17:24 GMT

> I wish there was a real DOM. the one true way to work across all
> browsers but unfortunately, there is no DOM.

Untrue... there are, in fact, several.

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I told you this was going to happen.

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Good Man - 30 Oct 2007 20:12 GMT

vbgunz <vbgunz@gmail.com> wrote in news:1193761018.580046.263420
@o80g2000hse.googlegroups.com:

> how do you learn to script and target the latest browsers (Firefox 2,
> Internet Explorer 6 & 7 and Opera 9) in as little redundancy as
> possible but in a way in which all browsers are satisfied?

the same way everyone else did.

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Tenacious - 30 Oct 2007 21:20 GMT

> vbgunz <vbg...@gmail.com> wrote in news:1193761018.580046.263420
> @o80g2000hse.googlegroups.com:
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>
> the same way everyone else did.

"the same way everyone else did" is a weak and unsympathetic answer.
People learn with different techniques that are most efficient for
them. I would start with IE, learn it in detail. You will then get a
good handle on the basic principals behind all web browsers. Then move
on to the next browser and it will take less time than the first and
so on down the list of browsers. After the first browser you are
mainly learning the differences between each of them. Good luck.

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Ivan Marsh - 30 Oct 2007 21:38 GMT

>> vbgunz <vbg...@gmail.com> wrote in news:1193761018.580046.263420
>> @o80g2000hse.googlegroups.com:
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> I would start with IE, learn it in detail. You will then get a good
> handle on the basic principals behind all web browsers.

No, unfortunately the opposite is true. It's IE that doesn't adhere to any
standard... even between different versions of IE.

Start Programming for the Gecko engine and you'll cover Firefox, Opera,
Mozilla, Netscape, Camino, OmniWeb, Safari and Konqueror... then you can
start figuring out what doesn't work in IE.

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I told you this was going to happen.

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Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn - 30 Oct 2007 21:40 GMT

> "the same way everyone else did" is a weak and unsympathetic answer.
> People learn with different techniques that are most efficient for
> them. I would start with IE, learn it in detail. You will then get a
> good handle on the basic principals behind all web browsers.

YMMD.

PointedEars, amused

Signature

var bugRiddenCrashPronePieceOfJunk = (
navigator.userAgent.indexOf('MSIE 5') != -1
&& navigator.userAgent.indexOf('Mac') != -1
) // Plone, register_function.js:16

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Tenacious - 30 Oct 2007 21:54 GMT

On 30 Oct, 13:40, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedE...@web.de>
wrote:

> > "the same way everyone else did" is a weak and unsympathetic answer.
> > People learn with different techniques that are most efficient for
[quoted text clipped - 9 lines]
> && navigator.userAgent.indexOf('Mac') != -1
> ) // Plone, register_function.js:16

I would still start with IE. Certainly not because I think Microsoft
adheres to standards, but because it is the most widely used browser
out there. However you must find your own path.

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Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn - 30 Oct 2007 22:01 GMT

> On 30 Oct, 13:40, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedE...@web.de>
> wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 6 lines]
>> PointedEars, amused
>> [...]

Please don't quote signatures, unless you are referring to them.

http://jibbering.com/faq/

> I would still start with IE. Certainly not because I think Microsoft
> adheres to standards, but because it is the most widely used browser
> out there. However you must find your own path.

You have stated that learning about IE would get anyone a good handle on the
basic priciples behind all Web browser. That was so mindbogglingly
ridiculous, as IE's layout engine is the most flawed (even when compared
against Microsoft's own pseudo-standards) and the MSHTML DOM the most
error-prone DOM out there, that it had to be a practical joke.

PointedEars

Signature

realism: HTML 4.01 Strict
evangelism: XHTML 1.0 Strict
madness: XHTML 1.1 as application/xhtml+xml
-- Bjoern Hoehrmann

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Tenacious - 30 Oct 2007 22:39 GMT

On 30 Oct, 14:01, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedE...@web.de>
wrote:

> > On 30 Oct, 13:40, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedE...@web.de>
> > wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 27 lines]
> madness: XHTML 1.1 as application/xhtml+xml
> -- Bjoern Hoehrmann

Well, to each his own. You can start with the simplest and work up to
the most difficult. I prefer to start with what is most widely used so
as to satisfy the majority of the users first. But to a large degree
it depends on your project time contraints and who your target
audience is. If the goal is simply a learning experience, then I agree
that it is best to start with the simplest.

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Ivan Marsh - 30 Oct 2007 23:13 GMT

> On 30 Oct, 14:01, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedE...@web.de>
> wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 36 lines]
> audience is. If the goal is simply a learning experience, then I agree
> that it is best to start with the simplest.

It's not a matter of simple or difficult... start with that which is most
cross-platform and only include IE specific code when necessary.

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I told you this was going to happen.

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Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn - 30 Oct 2007 23:46 GMT

> On 30 Oct, 14:01, Thomas 'PointedEars' Lahn <PointedE...@web.de>
> wrote:
[quoted text clipped - 7 lines]
>> error-prone DOM out there, that it had to be a practical joke.
>> [...]

Will you please stop quoting what you are not referring to?

http://www.jibbering.com/faq/faq_notes/clj_posts.html

> Well, to each his own. You can start with the simplest and work up to
> the most difficult. I prefer to start with what is most widely used so
> as to satisfy the majority of the users first.

You miss the point. You recommended starting with learning on IE because
understanding IE would help to understand the way browsers work. Well, it
does help to understand how buggy browsers can actually be, that's for sure.

PointedEars, Score adjusted

Signature

var bugRiddenCrashPronePieceOfJunk = (
navigator.userAgent.indexOf('MSIE 5') != -1
&& navigator.userAgent.indexOf('Mac') != -1
) // Plone, register_function.js:16

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Webmaster Forum / HTML, CSS, Scripts / JavaScript / October 2007

there is no DOM. the DOM is a lie.