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Webmaster Forum / Browsers / Internet Explorer / February 2006IE Display Flaw
Does anyone know how to code html frames to get around internet explorer's display flaw (visible on my site www.gatorgrad.com). The problem is that when the content in the right frame extends beyond the bottom of the screen, IE appropriately places a scroll bar on the right sight to allow the viewer to scroll down and view the content. However, IE doesn't squeeze the content to fit in the window after slightly narrowing the view area for the scroll bar. So then IE displays a horizontal scroll bar so the viewer can scroll right to see the 1 cm of content hidden behind the verticle scroll bar. It doesn't matter how wide or narrow the whole browser window is nor does it matter how I horizontally restrict the content. This is very annoying and does not occur in any other browser I've tried (Firefox, Opera, etc.). It also happens in IE7b2 so I don't know if Microsoft is even aware of this frames display flaw. I'm pretty sure it's caused by frames because if I go to the URL of one of the individual content pages (like http://gatorgrad.home.att.net/clean.html) this display error does not occur. However if I view that same page through the normal frame or the hidden frame used in my domain forwarding service (like http://www.gatorgrad.com/clean.html) the flaw is obvious. If there is a html code work around, I'd really appreciate it. Thanks, Jim W. http://www.gatorgrad.com > If there is a html code work around, I'd really appreciate it. Thanks, Have you tried this? <frame src="page1.html" scrolling="no" resizable="no"> > Have you tried this? > > <frame src="page1.html" scrolling="no" resizable="no"> Thanks for the suggestion but this only occurs on the screens that need to scroll because as I described the content extends beyond the bottom of the screen. It should be able to scroll down with out having to scroll right. The other browsers don't have this issue. IE shouldn't either. Turning of the frame scrolling and resizing would cut of half or more of the content on some of the pages and won't work in my case. Thanks again, Jim W. http://www.gatorgrad.com > Thanks for the suggestion but this only occurs on the screens that need to > scroll because as I described the content extends beyond the bottom of the > screen. It should be able to scroll down with out having to scroll right. > The other browsers don't have this issue. IE shouldn't either. Turning > of the frame scrolling and resizing would cut of half or more of the > content on some of the pages and won't work in my case. Thanks again, I understand. I haven't done any basic HTML coding in quite a while, but I remember vaguely that there are other IE-specific parameters to control scrollbar behavior. I'm pretty sure the width of a scrollbar can be specified in pixels, and it might be possible to make them invisible. One other possibility could be to reduce your font size slightly (half a point or so?). [time passes....] OK, I've looked at your web page and I see a couple of other possibilities. 1) Use absolute positioning instead of align="right" for your graphics. 2) All of your graphic tags have an extra character in them that could cause unexpected browser reactions. Note the trailing slash in this: <img align="right" src="c130a.gif" alt="C-130" /> I'd try removing the slashes from the image tags first to see if that solves your problem. -Dave S. > I understand. I haven't done any basic HTML coding in quite a while, but > I remember vaguely that there are other IE-specific parameters to control [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > -Dave S. Dave I really appreciate you spending more of your valuable time on this but I think you've missed a critical point. No matter what I do to the content, the display error continues. The alignment is not the issue, if you go to the home page, http://www.gatorgrad.com/index.html you'll see the scrolling problem, then if you click on the link to the left for the Projects page, you won't see the problem. That trailing slash is now common in HTML 4 and XHTML because those formats require it when there isn't a closing tag. I'm convinced this is an inherrent error in the way IE displays frames. I was hoping someone knew a work-around for it or perhaps someone could get word to Microsoft to fix this annoying problem. Jim W. http://www.gatorgrad.com > Dave I really appreciate you spending more of your valuable time on this > but Heheh. I'm just curious about the problem. There must be a logical explanation. > I think you've missed a critical point. No matter what I do to the > content, the display error continues. The alignment is not the issue, if [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > common in HTML 4 and XHTML because those formats require it when there > isn't a closing tag. I'm using MSIE 7 and I do see the scrollbar on the home page, and not on the Projects page. My whole website is framed and no horizontal scrollbars appear on any of it. > I'm convinced this is an inherrent error in the way IE displays frames. I > was hoping someone knew a work-around for it or perhaps someone could get > word to Microsoft to fix this annoying problem. Given my observations above, it logically can't be an inherent IE frame display error. If it were, then the problem would appear in all framed pages. The home page contains far more elements than the subsidiary pages. I didn't calculate out the pixel totals, but the main frame for the home page has to be wider than the maximum remaining (after the left frame is subtracted) screen width at 1024x768. The vertical scrollbar takes up 9 pixels as I recall, and this has to be accounted for in the total width. When I load the page during a high-traffic period and it does not load all at once, the horizontal scrollbar only appears after the content below the top horizontal line is loaded. Something is set too wide in that part of the page, which is a table. I would try setting a CELLPADDING="0" parameter for the table to see whether the horizontal scrollbar disappears. The default value is 1, I think. If so, then your actual table width is 4 (13?) pixels greater than 100% of the available screen space. 50% + 50% + 1 pixel left TD leading pad + 1 pixel left TD trailing pad + 1 pixel right TD leading pad + 1 pixel right TD trailing pad (+ 9 pixels vertical scrollbar?) > 100% If the extra 9 pixels count, then you will also have to reduce the TD SIZE= percentages slightly. -Dave S. > Heheh. I'm just curious about the problem. There must be a logical > explanation. Then I appreciate your curriosity :) > My whole website is framed and no horizontal scrollbars appear on any of > it. Could you post your web page so I can look at it and the code? > The home page contains far more elements than the subsidiary pages. It has more elements but all the pages show this scroll bar problem except the projects page. I ran a test and shortened another page and it viewed just like the projects page without the horizontal scroll. But the stuff I removed to shorten the page is the same stuff at the bottom of the projects page which isn't causing a horizontal scroll bar on that page. > When I load the page during a high-traffic period and it does not load all > at once, the horizontal scrollbar only appears after the content below the > top horizontal line is loaded. I think the high traffic is just delaying the appearance of the bar because the bar does not show unless there is content that extends beyond the bottom of the screen. Once the lower content is loaded, then the vertical scroll bar is displayed on the right to allow one to scroll down and see that content, forcing the bar at the bottom. I say forcing, because when the vertical scroll bar appears it does so over the content and only a horizontal scroll bar would allow you to see the now hidden content behind the verticle bar. > Something is set too wide in that part of the page, which is a table. see above >I would try setting a CELLPADDING="0" parameter for the table to see >whether the horizontal scrollbar disappears. The default value is 1, I [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > If the extra 9 pixels count, then you will also have to reduce the TD > SIZE= percentages slightly. I would agree but the same problem appears at work on a LCD wide screen montior with 1600 pixels across the screen. There might be something wrong in my code but it's not the width of the elements. I've narrowed everything down to 100 pixels and that horizontal scroll bar still appears. Here's more proof for my IE display flaw theory. If you look at the exact same content in frame and out of the frame you'll see a difference. Try looking at http://www.gatorgrad.com/downloadtop.html Then look at the exact same file with this address http://gatorgrad.home.att.net/downloadtop.html When you do this in IE the gatorgrad.home.... has no horizontal scroll bar. The only difference is that the www.gatorgrad.... is in a "hidden frame" used by my forwarding service to cloak the actual address of the site. If I turn of the cloak, when you type www.gatorgrad.com/downloadtop.html it would forward you to the other address and no horizontal bar. I'd really like to see the code in your page with frames to see if there is a clue there. Again, only IE places this horizontal bar. The other browsers don't so I still think it's an IE flaw. > Again, only IE places this horizontal bar. The other browsers don't so I > still think it's an IE flaw. I'll bow to your logic at this point. I'm still thinking on it, though. In the meantime, here's the URL to my main framed pages - http://nf2g.com/scannist/index.html Let me know if you figure it out. -Dave S. > In the meantime, here's the URL to my main framed pages - > > http://nf2g.com/scannist/index.html > > Let me know if you figure it out. Thanks for the site, it led me to another interesting discovery. I compared the code for your frames to the code for my forwarding services frame. I deleted elements and such one at a time to see if one was causing the problem. I found nothing there. So I tried to place my index2.html into your frameset. Here's the line I changed: <frameset cols="150,*"> <frame name="contents" target="main" src="nf2g_menu.html" scrolling="no"> <frame name="main" src="http://gatorgrad.home.att.net/index2.html" scrolling="auto"> </frameset> When I looked at that in IE the horizontal bar was back. So perhaps this horizontal bar is a combination of issues. It must be the combination of my code and being in a frameset. So I'll toy with that a bit and see what I can come up with. Jim W. http://www.gatorgrad.com > Let me know if you figure it out. I discovered something else. I tried inserting a simpler page of mine, the pictures page, into your frame. Of course I got the horizontal bar again. So I went to the pictures page code and I was going to systematically start to remove elements to figure out which one is causing the problem. The first thing I removed, the DOCTYPE statement, fixed the problem. From what I've heard in other forums it is a major sin to write a page with out a DOCTYPE statement. So I want to keep that in there. I guess it is supposed to tell the browser exactly what version of html, or xhtml, or css, or rss, etc., your using so it displays the page properly. Well apparently IE has a problem displaying XHTML 1.0 or pages with DOCTYPEs in frames. I'm not sure which. I'm going to see if there is a problem with my DOCTYPE statement or if another DOCTYPE works better. Overall, I'm happy to be getting to the source of the problem, and very appreciative of your efforts and patience, but I keep coming back to the fact that the other browsers don't have this problem. It seems that if I change my code just so this doesn't display oddly in IE then the flaw in IE isn't really fixed. Well, I'll work on it some more and let you know how it goes. Things were certainly simpler in the days of plain old html 1.0. Jim W. http://www.gatorgrad.com > some more and let you know how it goes. Things were certainly simpler in > the days of plain old html 1.0. Version 1.0 was probably the last version that MSIE or Netscape were fully compliant with. After that, everybody started adding competing "extensions" to HTML to distinguish their browsers. -Dave S. |
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