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Webmaster Forum / HTML, CSS, Scripts / HTML / July 2008Quick URL Redirection
Hi, I'm writing this message to let you know about this site which lets you shorten your URLs: http://fogz.eu/ It makes a long URL into a short one. Maybe you've already heared of some service like that, maybe not. But I think it's still useful. Any comments? Hope this is the correct group to write to... - Nikola >Hi, > I'm writing this message to let you know about this site which [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > >- Nikola Same as http://tinyurl.com/ :-) >>Hi, >> I'm writing this message to let you know about this site which [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >Same as http://tinyurl.com/ >:-) Yeah I guess there are many of them around! ;-) Still, fogz.eu is essential, fast, clean... you know what I mean. :-) > >Hi, > > I'm writing this message to let you know about this site which [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > Same as http://tinyurl.com/ > :-) Not quite, count the characters, an important thing when you are in the business of being short.  Signaturedorayme .oO(Nikola Tesla) > I'm writing this message to let you know about this site which >lets you shorten your URLs: http://fogz.eu/ > >It makes a long URL into a short one. Maybe you've already heared of >some service like that, maybe not. But I think it's still useful. >Any comments? I absolutely hate it. And all of its brothers and sisters. What's wrong with normal URLs? Why slow me down with an unnecessary redirect? What if the server is overloaded? What if the service goes finally down one day? And what the hell does 'fogz' mean? Micha >.oO(Nikola Tesla) > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] >redirect? What if the server is overloaded? What if the service goes >finally down one day? And what the hell does 'fogz' mean? Correct, this is why i mentionned as http://tinyurl.com/ "tinyurl" have a meaning. Correct also if the server is overloaded. But it could be interesting if your original URL is per example: http://www.funet.fi/pub/sci/bio/life/insecta/lepidoptera/ditrysia/bombycoidea/bo mbycidae/bombyx/index.html .... better to use: http://tinyurl.com/5qlj8r isn't it ? :-) .oO(Raymond SCHMIT) >>What's wrong with normal URLs? Why slow me down with an unnecessary >>redirect? What if the server is overloaded? What if the service goes [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] >.... >better to use: http://tinyurl.com/5qlj8r isn't it ? :-) Our newsreaders are able to properly display such long URLs without breaking, so I don't really care in this case. ;) But agreed, short URLs _can_ be helpful in order to overcome newsreader flaws, although I still prefer the long, original version and would like to see it posted together with the shortcut. Micha >.oO(Raymond SCHMIT) > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] >flaws, although I still prefer the long, original version and would like >to see it posted together with the shortcut. With tinyurl, you can have a short url that bring you a screen showing the real url where you can choice to surf on it or not - this is better ....but it would be better to know it before clicking on the short url. >>.oO(Raymond SCHMIT) >> [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > better ....but it would be better to know it before clicking on the > short url. There are two ways to do that. THE USER can let TinyURL drop a cookie that says, "this guy wants to always be taken to the intermediary page that shows the long URL and asks him if he's not too scared (I paraphrase <g>) to continue to that page". That will happen, for him, for *any* TinyURLs he subsequently clicks. THE POSTER can prepend the string preview. to the address of the TinyURL he's created, and anyone clicking that link, even those without scaredy-cat cookies will be taken to the buffer page. The form for forcing the preview page on everyone is: http://preview.tinyurl.com/[foo] SignatureBlinky Killing all posts from Google Groups The Usenet Improvement Project: http://improve-usenet.org Need a new news feed? http://blinkynet.net/comp/newfeed.html [snip] > With tinyurl, you can have a short url that bring you a screen showing > the real url where you can choice to surf on it or not - this is > better ....but it would be better to know it before clicking on the > short url. What I find convenient with tinyurl, is that if you have a page with reciprocal links to your wesbite, and the links are from various forums, the page will rarely validate if the URL has lots of special chars, like '&' and 'id's. With tinyurl you can make it validate. SignatureI.N. Galidakis > [snip] >> With tinyurl, you can have a short url that bring you a screen showing >> the real url where you can choice to surf on it or not - this is >> better ....but it would be better to know it before clicking on the >> short url. > What I find convenient with tinyurl, is that if you have a page with reciprocal > links to your wesbite, and the links are from various forums, the page will > rarely validate if the URL has lots of special chars, like '&' and 'id's. With > tinyurl you can make it validate. Of course it would work to write the URLs correctly in the first place. Then you would not have to depend on the continued existence and database of another site. SignatureLars Eighner <http://larseighner.com/> usenet@larseighner.com Love is the only game that is not called on account of darkness. "lovely and talented"? Heh. Far from it ;o) >> [snip] > [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > Then you would not have to depend on the continued existence and database of > another site. Can you try to validate my page on HTML 4.01 transitional, where I inserted one duplicate ref, with the original URL: http://ioannis.virtualcomposer2000.com/links/index.html (Entry 18 on Optics section) Result: http://tinyurl.com/6dxbjp Maybe I am missing something obvious? SignatureI.N. Galidakis > Can you try to validate my page on HTML 4.01 transitional, where I inserted one > duplicate ref, with the original URL: [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > Result: > http://tinyurl.com/6dxbjp The original URL is broken. Replacing the "raw" ampersands (&'s) with the correct entity "&" will fix the problem. sherm-- SignatureMy blog: http://shermspace.blogspot.com Cocoa programming in Perl: http://camelbones.sourceforge.net >> Can you try to validate my page on HTML 4.01 transitional, where I inserted >> one duplicate ref, with the original URL: [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > The original URL is broken. Replacing the "raw" ampersands (&'s) with > the correct entity "&" will fix the problem. Thanks. I did it and it validates. I did not know that. Now I have to replace all the tinyurl's with the original links. > sherm-- SignatureI.N. Galidakis > > The original URL is broken. Replacing the "raw" ampersands (&'s) with > > the correct entity "&" will fix the problem. > > Thanks. I did it and it validates. I did not know that. Now I have to replace > all the tinyurl's with the original links. You might look for an editor that has a checker for your html and picks upstuff like this, Control + Command + Y on my old version of BBEdit alerts one to such things. There are other ways to check and get specific warnings too on or off line. As far as the & is concerned, it something that comes up so often that a saved replacement pattern (if your editor runs to such facility) is useful, search for (in plain English): Any & with a space for and aft and replace with & Signaturedorayme >> > The original URL is broken. Replacing the "raw" ampersands (&'s) with >> > the correct entity "&" will fix the problem. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > > Any & with a space for and aft and replace with & Or, first replace all "&" entities with "&", then replace all ampersands with "&". With sed, that's: sed -e 's/&/\&/g' -e 's/&/\&/g' SignatureChris F.A. Johnson, webmaster <http://Woodbine-Gerrard.com> =================================================================== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) > > As far as the & is concerned, it is something that comes up so often that a > > a saved replacement pattern (if your editor runs to such a facility) is [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > > sed -e 's/&/\&/g' -e 's/&/\&/g' I guess this is ok too. But is it not a bit the long way around? As far as I can see, there is no trouble with mucking up any already present "&"s with the simpler replace " & " with "&" Signaturedorayme >> > As far as the & is concerned, it is something that comes up so often that a >> > a saved replacement pattern (if your editor runs to such a facility) is [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > as I can see, there is no trouble with mucking up any already present > "&"s with the simpler replace " & " with "&" That would miss "AT&T", for example. SignatureChris F.A. Johnson, webmaster <http://Woodbine-Gerrard.com> =================================================================== Author: Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress) > >> > As far as the & is concerned, it is something that comes up so often > >> > that a [quoted text clipped - 15 lines] > > That would miss "AT&T", for example. Right! Signaturedorayme >> >> sed -e 's/&/\&/g' -e 's/&/\&/g' >> > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Right! Would also miss typical urlery such as: http://www.example.com?jukka=crabster&richter=gay SignatureNeredbojias http://www.neredbojias.net/ Great sights and sounds >>>>> sed -e 's/&/\&/g' -e 's/&/\&/g' >>>> I guess this is ok too. But is it not a bit the long way around? As [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > > http://www.example.com?jukka=crabster&richter=gay And also: <http://www.example.com?Nered&beau&jingles=asshole> SignatureGus >>>>>> sed -e 's/&/\&/g' -e 's/&/\&/g' >>>>> I guess this is ok too. But is it not a bit the long way around? As [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > <http://www.example.com?Nered&beau&jingles=asshole> Your wit is as sharp as Silly Putty.... Btw, what's the "Gus" stand for, -"Disgusting"? SignatureNeredbojias http://www.neredbojias.net/ Great sights and sounds In our last episode, <doraymeRidThis-BF82B0.11462127072008@news-vip.optusnet.com.au>, the lovely and talented dorayme broadcast on alt.html: >> > As far as the & is concerned, it is something that comes up so often that a >> > a saved replacement pattern (if your editor runs to such a facility) is [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] >> >> sed -e 's/&/\&/g' -e 's/&/\&/g' > I guess this is ok too. But is it not a bit the long way around? As far > as I can see, there is no trouble with mucking up any already present > "&"s with the simpler replace " & " with "&" Well, yeah, but it won't get the ampersands in GET-like URLs. SignatureLars Eighner <http://larseighner.com/> usenet@larseighner.com WWJD: What Would Jenna Drink? > In our last episode, > <doraymeRidThis-BF82B0.11462127072008@news-vip.optusnet.com.au>, the lovely [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > > Well, yeah, but it won't get the ampersands in GET-like URLs. You are quite right. My own practical policies are not for everyone. I don't much deal in complicated urls, almost all my ampersands are "and"s and have spaces (either meant to or as how I prefer). And the rare "&" not spaced on one or the other or both sides is flagged by my editor as needing attention. Yes, I know, there are yet other ways to skin this cat with patterning. But let me now turn to more general issues. Are you all still awake? Not that I am keen particularly to tout advantage to my simpler more naive way, but it has one advantage for me, it picks up typos as when I convert all the "&"s with spaces yet still my validator finds trouble and I am alerted to individual cases. I often find I need to correct and put in a space. I guess you can argue quite opposite things in regard to best strategy. You can try to tool up the factory to give perfect results in one go, you put effort into tool making. Or you can be quick with tooling up and do a bit of quality control afterwards. I do know that it is often counterproductive to go for 100% results via the tooling up route. Signaturedorayme In our last episode, <doraymeRidThis-CD2D8C.16505227072008@news-vip.optusnet.com.au>, the lovely and talented dorayme broadcast on alt.html: > I guess you can argue quite opposite things in regard to best strategy. > You can try to tool up the factory to give perfect results in one go, > you put effort into tool making. Or you can be quick with tooling up and > do a bit of quality control afterwards. I do know that it is often > counterproductive to go for 100% results via the tooling up route. With my highly tricked out joe macros, I type well-formed html about as fast as I could type plain text and then convert. I can get in trouble with cut and paste, but as most URLs get into my system as lynx bookmarks (and lynx does the right thing) this is not a big problem. Sure, I make errors, just as I make errors typing plain text. I can run the current document through nsgmls with a keystroke, but sometimes I don't --- just as sometimes I don't run my spell checker. I have picked up a few document conversion tricks. If you will ever want a text printed in a monospace font, use two spaces between sentences. You can easily remove the extra space if you need to, but putting them in is very difficult (and it won't matter in HTML anyway). In converting from plain text, always convert ampersands first. Before you do anything else. Then angle brackets (if you have any) and other special characters. If you don't convert ampersands first, any special character or angle brackets will end up &lt; or some such. If you don't convert any angle brackets (or math inequality signs) you may have before you start the markup, you will regret it when you have to try to dig them out from the angle brackets that belong to the markup. Obviously, it is very difficult when a document consists of parts that are plain text and parts that are already converted. It is best to avoid this if you can, but if you can't, sometimes it is easier to convert everything to plain text first. lynx dump will often work for this, but if it rebels, wrap the plain text parts in PRE. This is something of the spirit of the advice to convert all the & back to & and then reconvert. As it happens, joe groks (sort-of) regex search and replace strings out of the box --- no pimping required. Several other editors do too. It is really essential to have an editor that does. Oh yeah, it doesn't hurt to be a wizard of perl one-liners. A little sed goes a long way toward getting at things that are difficult for perl. SignatureLars Eighner <http://larseighner.com/> usenet@larseighner.com War on Terrorism: Bad News from the Sanity Front "In this autumn of anger, even a liberal can find his thoughts turning to ... torture." --Jonathan Alter,_Newsweek_ > You might look for an editor that has a checker for your html and picks > upstuff like this, Control + Command + Y on my old version of BBEdit > alerts one to such things. I'm happy to say, it's still there in the latest version too. :-) sherm-- SignatureMy blog: http://shermspace.blogspot.com Cocoa programming in Perl: http://camelbones.sourceforge.net > > You might look for an editor that has a checker for your html and picks > > upstuff like this, Control + Command + Y on my old version of BBEdit [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > sherm-- Excellent, I must get around to it. So far my version of BB seems to do all I want. Signaturedorayme > "lovely and talented"? Heh. Far from it ;o) >>> [snip] >> [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] >> Then you would not have to depend on the continued existence and database of >> another site. > Can you try to validate my page on HTML 4.01 transitional, where I > inserted one duplicate ref, with the original URL: > http://ioannis.virtualcomposer2000.com/links/index.html As I said, if you enter the URLs correctly, they will not keep your pages from validating. In fact you have not correctly entered any of the ampersands on this page --- not the ones in text and not the ones in URLs. > (Entry 18 on Optics section) > Result: > http://tinyurl.com/6dxbjp > Maybe I am missing something obvious? Change all ampersands to & . That could be tricky if some were already converted, but as you have not got any of them right, just use search-and-replace to change all & to & . (Beware, however. Links with & in them will work in html documents when read by a web browser. They may not work when the URL is sniffed out of other kinds of documents by other kinds of software. So, for example, if you copy a link into a plain-text news article, many news readers will not decode & correctly.) SignatureLars Eighner <http://larseighner.com/> usenet@larseighner.com War on Terrorism: Camp Follower "I am ... a total sucker for the guys ... with all the ribbons on and stuff, and they say it's true and I'm ready to believe it. -Cokie Roberts,_ABC_ > What I find convenient with tinyurl, is that if you have a page with > reciprocal links to your wesbite, and the links are from various > forums, the page will rarely validate if the URL has lots of special > chars, like '&' and 'id's. With tinyurl you can make it validate. And you can't just do a replace & with & ? SignatureAdrienne Boswell at Home Arbpen Web Site Design Services http://www.cavalcade-of-coding.info Please respond to the group so others can share >What's wrong with normal URLs? Sometimes URLs are just too long for the underlying (poorly designed) protocol. Maybe the client has some flaws. Often the result is a broken URL. >Why slow me down with an unnecessary redirect? See above? >What if the server is overloaded? What if my ISP doesn't work anymore? What if Google stop working? What if my HD crashes? >What if the service goes finally down one day? See above? >And what the hell does 'fogz' mean? Dunno, ask the one who created it. Anyway, what's your problem with URL redirects? No one takes your LONG URLs away from you, you're free to waste cyberspace with unnecessary junk extra bytes :P > Hi, > I'm writing this message to let you know about this site which > lets you shorten your URLs: http://fogz.eu/ The idea has been thought of already and has a number of major problems. Some have been addressed, others linger on. http://gojomo.blogspot.com/2006/02/tinyurls-are-evil-urls.html |
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