 |
 | Home | Contact Us | FAQ | Search & Site Map | Link to Us |
 | Sign In | Join | Other 45 Sites in Network |
| HomeDiscussion GroupsGeneralPHPASPPerlColdFusionFlashHTML, CSS, ScriptsBrowsers |
Webmaster Forum / Flash / Flash Remoting / October 2003Flash Remoting MX vs Flash 2004 MX Standalone
Hello all, I have a short question and a long question. Both ask the same thing; my long version just clarifies what I'm asking. Please do not thing I am trolling, or attempting to insult a Macromedia product. I'm trying to better understand the offerings. Short question: what does Flash Remoting using a Flash 2004 MX client application offer that a standalong Flash 2004 MX client application does not? Long question: since Flash 2004 MX can post requests to URLs including XML data why do I need Flash Remoting? It seems Flash Remoting is a facilitator, an application server web service mapper that provides hooks that are easily done without it. At this time, I'm going to run down the Flash Remoting MX overview located at http://www.macromedia.com/software/flashremoting/productinfo/overview/ and make comments on the main bullet points. All my comments are marked as (LB - ) Lower Costs and Accelerate Development Easily Access Business Logic. (LB- Can do with Flash MX standalone by posting XML or HTTP requests.) Easily Access Web Services From Macromedia Flash. (LB- Same answer, except for outside original domain.) Streamline Your Testing and Debugging. (LB- Does the Net Connection Debugger exist within MX Standalone?) Simplify Your Team Workflow. (LB- This can be done using standalone with a good web service API.) Build Robust, Scalable Rich Internet Applications Simplify Recordset Handling. (LB- Can this be done in standalone?) Continue to Use XML. (LB- Again-- Remoting makes this easier, but it is still possible with standalone.) Promote Well-Designed Applications. (LB- Can do with Flash MX standalone by posting XML or HTTP requests.) Use Built-In Application Server Features. (LB- Can do with Flash MX standalone utilize Application server session handling?) Connect Macromedia Flash to Leading Application Server Technologies Use Your Existing Web Application Server. .(LB- Can do with Flash MX standalone by posting XML or HTTP requests.) Deploy in Your Native Application Server Environment. (LB- Same answer.). Deploy Consistently Across Platforms and Devices. (LB- Same answer.). In conclusion, I have three distinct questions. (1) Does the Net Connection Debugger exist within MX Standalone? On the Macromedia site using a search, it is only mentioned along with Remoting MX. (2) Can data recordsets be mapped to a "scrolling list or datagrid" using 2004 MX Standalone? (3) Can do with Flash MX standalone utilize Application server session handling? Does Flash MX 2004 automatically utilize cookies stored within a user's encompassing browser to report itself to an application server? In other words, does a client-side Flash application embedded in the browser act and post data as if it were an HTML form within the browser? If the answer is yes, then "Use Built-In Application Server Features" may also be duplicated with Standalone. Thank you for any and all information regarding these topics. I appreciate all responses. Lukas for something simple, you probably could do without remoting just fine (say, populating a list box or doing a simple drill down form app). When you are buiilding large, complex RIAs, I wouldn't want to be without it. Imagine trying to manage a few hundred different types of calls and responses with XML/http. It probably can be done in Mx04 w/ the webservice connector, but I am a big fan of remoting because of the bandwidth AMF (remoting) uses compared to XML. I won't even start using MX04 for 3 reasons: - need to wait at least 12-18 months before the new player (7) has penetrated the majority of browsers - just learned AS1 about 5 months ago, and invested countless hours customizing the buggy v1 UI components, so I'm not about to throw that knowledge away yet. - Waiting for an official release of remoting for MX04... the current version is written in AS1. While community members have done it right using AS2, I would rather wait for MM to do it. Thank you VERY MUCH for your opinions. I need someone knowledgeable of the product line to help me. > for something simple, you probably could do without remoting just fine (say, populating a list box or doing a simple drill down form app). When you are buiilding large, complex RIAs, I wouldn't want to be without it. Imagine trying to manage a few hundred different types of calls and responses with XML/http. It probably can be done in Mx04 w/ the webservice connector, but I am a big fan of remoting because of the bandwidth AMF (remoting) uses compared to XML. Could you be more specific about AMF? I'm unfamiliar... XML parsing client side is what scares me. I think I could come up with a rather quick schema that mimics HTTP traffic, so I'm not worried about the communication layer. It's the unknown aspects of the product that I'll miss. I'm just sick, sick, sick of my applications having web front ends. > I won't even start using MX04 for 3 reasons: > - need to wait at least 12-18 months before the new player (7) has penetrated the majority of browsers Assume your users are willing and able to download the latest player. > - just learned AS1 about 5 months ago, and invested countless hours customizing the buggy v1 UI components, so I'm not about to throw that knowledge away yet. Understood and respectable. > - Waiting for an official release of remoting for MX04... the current version is written in AS1. While community members have done it right using AS2, I would rather wait for MM to do it. I would like to hear more of your experience with remoting, if you're willing to share. I just don't find the Macromedia white papers and product marketing compelling. However, I'm NOT the type of person to dismiss a technology because of my ignorance, so I'm trying to be thorough. Lukas I just found this white paper that gives a good Java-based definition of AMF and the benefits. I'd like to know raw statistics however. http://www.macromedia.com/software/flashremoting/whitepapers/pdf/flr_architecture.pdf Lukas >Could you be more specific about AMF? I'm unfamiliar... AMF, or action message format, is a proprietary protocol developed by Macromedia which serializes and deserializes flash objects. Here is a great comparison in deciding whether to use an AMF derived product or XML (SOAP): http://www.flashorb.com/articles/soap_vs_flash_remoting_benchmark.shtml here's another comment: "When using the built in SOAP serivices, you have to have the player work with Strings and when using Remoting you have a binary transer of data (AMF) and the player works with native Data Objects. Small SOAP data: use WebServiceConnector. Large Native Data Objects: Use Remoting. It's not rocket science." To date, my experience with remoting has been great. It was very easy to grasp, as I've done a good bit of web service stuff and my backend is all Cold Fusion MX, which makes remoting a snap. Most of my problems have been how to work with the data AFTER I get it to the client side, but usually things can be worked out. That is an excellent argument for Remoting. And in reading about it more, I'd say it is THE reason to switch. Frankly, anyone can write a communication layer for webservices integration. However, not in a propreitary binary format. NOW-- explain to me how indies are developing these things themselves. Is there an open API, or are they hacking their way through it? My primary example would be here. http://sourceforge.net/projects/openamf/ Second, and I'm sure there are billions of threads about this issue, when will Macromedia or anyone else support the AS2 API with Remoting? Lukas 1. AS 2.0 is actually compatible with flash player 6.79 2. You certainly are not going to throuw that knowledge away, you are going to build on it and extend it. BTW the components in FlashMX 2004 pro are very good. If you stick with FlashMX you can get UI components 2 and maybe 3 for FREE and the quality is better. Check through MM exchange. 3. The so-called "official" remoting for 2004 is and has been available. I think you will find it quite exciting. You can get it at: http://www.macromedia.com/software/flashremoting/downloads/components/ 4. As a bonus there are Remoting components created by Justin Watkins. You can download the extension at: http://www.amfphp.org/components/ Happy coding............ -//- Jaye > for something simple, you probably could do without remoting just fine (say, populating a list box or doing a simple drill down form app). When you are buiilding large, complex RIAs, I wouldn't want to be without it. Imagine trying to manage a few hundred different types of calls and responses with XML/http. It probably can be done in Mx04 w/ the webservice connector, but I am a big fan of remoting because of the bandwidth AMF (remoting) uses compared to XML. > I won't even start using MX04 for 3 reasons: > > - need to wait at least 12-18 months before the new player (7) has penetrated the majority of browsers > > - just learned AS1 about 5 months ago, and invested countless hours customizing the buggy v1 UI components, so I'm not about to throw that knowledge away yet. > - Waiting for an official release of remoting for MX04... the current version is written in AS1. While community members have done it right using AS2, I would rather wait for MM to do it. The Remoting components created by Justin won't install on my system. When I use the extension manager to install the d/l file I receive the message "The extension package is invalid. The extension will not be installed." Any ideas?  SignatureTroy Murray The views expressed in this newsgroup posting are my personal opinions and views and do not reflect on those of my employeer. > 1. AS 2.0 is actually compatible with flash player 6.79 > [quoted text clipped - 35 lines] > version is written in AS1. While community members have done it right using > AS2, I would rather wait for MM to do it. What version of Flash are you using. Also what version of Extension Manager are you using? -//- Jaye > The Remoting components created by Justin won't install on my system. When > I use the extension manager to install the d/l file I receive the message [quoted text clipped - 49 lines] > using > > AS2, I would rather wait for MM to do it. |
Reply to this Message |
 Sign In
 Join
 My Latest Posts My Monitored Threads My Blog My Photo Gallery My Profile My Homepage Start New Thread Enable EMail Alerts Rate this Thread
|
©2009 Advenet LLC Privacy Policy - Terms of Use
This website includes both content owned or controlled by Advenet as well as content owned or controlled by third parties.