browser compat - need help with one thing

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Duane Lambe - 29 Dec 2003 19:42 GMT

Hi folks - site's at http://www.datawire.net/files/intranet.html ;
works fine in IE, but open in Firebird/Moz/Opera, and you can see that
the word "Home" near the top doesn't move down to line up with
Documentation on the left. I've tried seemingly every padding and
margin I can think of, but can't get it to line up in browsers other
than IE... little help once again. :)

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duane lambe

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Stan Brown - 29 Dec 2003 21:12 GMT

>Hi folks - site's at http://www.datawire.net/files/intranet.html ;
>works fine in IE, but open in Firebird/Moz/Opera,

I'm running Mozilla 1.4. I got as far in your page as

> <form action="%20">
> <select class="selectmenu2" name="menu2" onchange="MM_jumpMenu('parent',this,0)">

and stopped reading.

It's your privilege, I suppose, to make navigation depend on
Javascript, but I don't want to help with a page that does.

Signature

Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Cortland County, New York, USA
http://OakRoadSystems.com/
HTML 4.01 spec: http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/
validator: http://validator.w3.org/
CSS 2 spec: http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-CSS2/
2.1 changes: http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/changes.html
validator: http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/

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Duane Lambe - 30 Dec 2003 03:33 GMT

>>Hi folks - site's at http://www.datawire.net/files/intranet.html ;
>>works fine in IE, but open in Firebird/Moz/Opera,
[quoted text clipped - 8 lines]
> It's your privilege, I suppose, to make navigation depend on
> Javascript, but I don't want to help with a page that does.

I don't know why you felt compelled to post, but anyone else? I'm just
looking for a little help. I'm pretty sure the positioning has nothing
to do with the javascript on the page. ;)

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Andrew Thompson - 30 Dec 2003 11:00 GMT

....

> > It's your privilege, I suppose, to make navigation depend on
> > Javascript, but I don't want to help with a page that does.

...

> I don't know why you felt compelled to post, but anyone else? I'm just
> looking for a little help. I'm pretty sure the positioning has nothing
> to do with the javascript on the page. ;)

That sounds a bit hollow, coming from
someone who has still not validated
the page concerned. You have shown
no sign yet of following the advice _I_
gave you.

And the 'pretty sure' it's not a problem bit?
Prove it. Reproduce the error on a page
with no JS, a page that _is_ valid.

Thereafter, you might have a good chance of
getting further help. As it is, your prospects
are not looking good.

--
Andrew Thompson
* http://www.PhySci.org/ PhySci software suite
* http://www.1point1C.org/ 1.1C - Superluminal!
* http://www.AThompson.info/andrew/ personal site

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Duane Lambe - 30 Dec 2003 14:42 GMT

>That sounds a bit hollow, coming from
>someone who has still not validated
>the page concerned. You have shown
>no sign yet of following the advice _I_
>gave you.

Apoligies - I saw Stan's post before yours on my server.

>And the 'pretty sure' it's not a problem bit?
>Prove it. Reproduce the error on a page
>with no JS, a page that _is_ valid.

Well, I've validated the page [I'll say once again - long story short
I'm trying to get the page up before someone here goes on mat-leave at
the end of the month... she's still learning, and dead tags and such
keep creeping in, nothing against her, but the page keeps getting
invalidated every time I look at it... digressing.]

I'm not sure I know how to create a /non/-JS menu. I'd be more than
happy to do so - it's likely simple - but I've just never had to.

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Andrew Thompson - 30 Dec 2003 21:29 GMT

>..dead tags and such
> keep creeping in, nothing against her, but the page keeps getting
> invalidated every time I look at it... digressing.]

Try making a 'secret' version, call it
'alter_under_pain_of_death.html'
that might help (OK - silly URL, but
I think you get the picture)

--
Andrew Thompson
* http://www.PhySci.org/ PhySci software suite
* http://www.1point1C.org/ 1.1C - Superluminal!
* http://www.AThompson.info/andrew/ personal site

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Duane Lambe - 31 Dec 2003 15:20 GMT

>>..dead tags and such
>> keep creeping in, nothing against her, but the page keeps getting
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>that might help (OK - silly URL, but
>I think you get the picture)

hehe, good idea - I'll try something like that. :)

I think I found the means to trash the JS on the page.... little more
tweaking, it should be OK (URL provided in thread not updated with
changes).

Thanks to all for the suggestions. Once I get things cleaned up, I'll
see if it's still an IE pain or not. For now, it's NYE, and I'm gettin
hammered. :)

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Alan J. Flavell - 30 Dec 2003 11:29 GMT

> > It's your privilege, I suppose, to make navigation depend on
> > Javascript, but I don't want to help with a page that does.
>
> I don't know why you felt compelled to post,

Welcome to Usenet

> but anyone else?

It seems you could benefit from some lessons in elementary problem
solving.

Make a test page - get rid of extraneous factors (such as javascript),
repair known defects (such as failure to validate), then see if you
can reproduce the problem. At that point, you'll likely find some
well-informed usenauts who are keen to help you.

> I'm just looking for a little help.

Which is pretty-much what you're likely to get, if you carry on as you
are doing: you rate to get "help" (key phrase: "try this") in
bludgeoning your page from one unmaintainable state to another
unmaintainable state, which just happens to not exhibit the fault
about which you are complaining, but lacks any fundamental
improvement. Some of us around here think that Usenet is capable of
better than that.

> I'm pretty sure the positioning has nothing
> to do with the javascript on the page. ;)

That's not funny. It's your job to investigate that, first, before
appealing to the group for help. IMHO and YMMV.

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Stan Brown - 30 Dec 2003 15:15 GMT

In article <Pine.LNX.4.53.0312301121050.15092@ppepc56.ph.gla.ac.uk>
in comp.infosystems.www.authoring.stylesheets, Alan J. Flavell
wrote:

>> I'm just looking for a little help.
>
[quoted text clipped - 4 lines]
>about which you are complaining, but lacks any fundamental
>improvement.

This made me laugh out loud. Thanks, Alan!

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Andrew Thompson - 30 Dec 2003 03:51 GMT

> Hi folks - site's at http://www.datawire.net/files/intranet.html ;
> works fine in IE, but open in Firebird/Moz/Opera,

I am just a noob who lurks here (mostly),
but this line caught my attention.

So far as I can see from the posts thus far,
if something 'works fine in IE', but not
(Firebird)/Moz/Opera, it does not validate.

Same here, there are three html errors.
I cannot guarantee that fixing those will
solve the probelm (in fact they will, if
anything, 'break' the look in IE), but it's
best to try getting standard results using
valid html/css.

HTH

--
Andrew Thompson
* http://www.PhySci.org/ PhySci software suite
* http://www.1point1C.org/ 1.1C - Superluminal!
* http://www.AThompson.info/andrew/ personal site

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Neal - 30 Dec 2003 06:15 GMT

> Hi folks - site's at http://www.datawire.net/files/intranet.html ;
> works fine in IE, but open in Firebird/Moz/Opera, and you can see that
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
> --
> duane lambe

Truth be told, if you're writing for an Intranet, and everyone's using only
one browser, do whatever it takes.

However, on the internet, for public view...

1) Get rid of the errant </style> in the header. (I ran a validate, it found
that and some issues with the select tags. I'm no whiz on forms so I'll
refrain from trying to help there.)

2) Per your presentation issue, get it to work in Opera and Netscape, and
expect variance in IE. IE adds stuff wherever it wants to and the web author
has to expect it to be non-conforming. Sorry I can't be more positive. I am
just done with dealing with a layout issue of a similar sort myself, and the
bottom line is that IE won't conform.

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Duane Lambe - 30 Dec 2003 14:53 GMT

>Truth be told, if you're writing for an Intranet, and everyone's using only
>one browser, do whatever it takes.
>
>However, on the internet, for public view...

Pretty much the same deal - we have several people that are using Moz,
Opera and FBird in lieu of IE, as they keep getting ridden with
spyware, despite my best efforts. I'm not actually the web guy here,
but rather a sysadmin who's doing too many jobs at once. :)

>1) Get rid of the errant </style> in the header. (I ran a validate, it found
>that and some issues with the select tags. I'm no whiz on forms so I'll
>refrain from trying to help there.)

Gone - previous post explains why dead tags keep getting in there, but
there were several other anomolies that are now corrected; my thanks
to you and others for making me do it - I should have been more
vigilant.

>2) Per your presentation issue, get it to work in Opera and Netscape, and
>expect variance in IE. IE adds stuff wherever it wants to and the web author
>has to expect it to be non-conforming. Sorry I can't be more positive. I am
>just done with dealing with a layout issue of a similar sort myself, and the
>bottom line is that IE won't conform.

Thing is, I can't get it to budge in the non-IE UAs. It's almost as if
that "Home" at the top has nothing to butt up against, for lack of a
better description. I'd be willing to bet that IE is "helping" the
page display "properly", but I can't let it sit there broken (despite
the state the page was hastily thrown up in :).

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Webmaster Forum / HTML, CSS, Scripts / CSS / December 2003

browser compat - need help with one thing