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Webmaster Forum / HTML, CSS, Scripts / CSS / December 2003Browser version testing
I maintain an academic web site accessed regularly by schools without the latest equipment. This means that Version 4 IE and NS browsers are frequent visitors. When I validate CSS and HTML, which versions and DOCTYPE should I test against? Thanks you, Chris Hopkins www.parthia.com >I maintain an academic web site accessed regularly by schools without the >latest equipment. This means that Version 4 IE and NS browsers are frequent >visitors. > >When I validate CSS and HTML, which versions and DOCTYPE should I test >against? I'm not sure whether you just used terms carelessly, or actually have a major misunderstanding. You should not (and should not need to) specify a DOCTYPE at validation time. Rather, that DOCTYPE should be at the beginning of your document. Which DOCTYPE should be in your document? The one that describes the version of (X)HTML you're using. For any new work, to reduce problems down the road, you should specify HTML 4.01 Strict. There's a DOCTYPE for easy cut-and-paste at > http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/global.html#didx-document_type_declaration Version-4 browsers should be able to copy just fine with HTML 4.01. They may not implement all features -- and they will get some things horribly wrong -- but the same would be true with other DOCTYPEs. And by specifying HTML 4.01 Strict, you will be telling later browsers not to emulate the bugs of earlier browsers.  SignatureStan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Cortland County, New York, USA http://OakRoadSystems.com/ HTML 4.01 spec: http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/ validator: http://validator.w3.org/ CSS 2 spec: http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-CSS2/ 2.1 changes: http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/changes.html validator: http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/ Thanks, Stan. So I understand the answer is to use 4.01 strict even though I am targeting version 4 browsers. Now about the CSS. For version 4 browsers, should I be using CSS1 or CSS2? Or is there a complex matrix of which CSS syntax is understood by those browsers? Cheers, Chris Hopkins www.parthia.com > >I maintain an academic web site accessed regularly by schools without the > >latest equipment. This means that Version 4 IE and NS browsers are frequent [quoted text clipped - 14 lines] > specify HTML 4.01 Strict. There's a DOCTYPE for easy cut-and-paste > at http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/global.html#didx-document_type_declaration > Version-4 browsers should be able to copy just fine with HTML 4.01. > They may not implement all features -- and they will get some things > horribly wrong -- but the same would be true with other DOCTYPEs. > And by specifying HTML 4.01 Strict, you will be telling later > browsers not to emulate the bugs of earlier browsers. >Now about the CSS. For version 4 browsers, should I be using CSS1 or CSS2? >Or is there a complex matrix of which CSS syntax is understood by those >browsers? Please do not post upside down <http://oakroadsystems.com/genl/unice.htm>. It is highly irritating to a number of us, which means that it reduces your chances of getting your question answered. CSS2 pretty much includes CSS1, but both Netscape 4 and IE 4 do well with some aspects of CSS1 and poorly with others. See <http://www.blooberry.com/indexdot/css/index.html> for extensive details on quirks of browsers with CSS. SignatureStan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Cortland County, New York, USA http://OakRoadSystems.com/ HTML 4.01 spec: http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/ validator: http://validator.w3.org/ CSS 2 spec: http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-CSS2/ 2.1 changes: http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/changes.html validator: http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/ > Thanks, Stan. So I understand the answer is to use 4.01 strict even though I > am targeting version 4 browsers. What do you mean by "version 4 browsers"? If you mean something like IE4, or Netscape 4, then that's nothing to do with HTML 4.x. > Now about the CSS. For version 4 browsers, should I be using CSS1 or CSS2? > Or is there a complex matrix of which CSS syntax is understood by those > browsers? No browsers understand all of CSS, and some have different ideas about how to do the same sort of thing. And since there's no way to say that some CSS should be regarded as being CSS 1 or CSS 2, there's little point in deliberately doing something in an old way, particularly if there's been changes to CSS. SignatureMy "from" address is totally fake. The reply-to address is real, but may be only temporary. Reply to usenet postings in the same place as you read the message you're replying to. This message was sent without a virus, please delete some files yourself. >No browsers understand all of CSS, and some have different ideas about >how to do the same sort of thing. And since there's no way to say that >some CSS should be regarded as being CSS 1 or CSS 2, there's little >point in deliberately doing something in an old way, particularly if >there's been changes to CSS. That is one view, basically "I don't care how it looks in anything below Mozilla 1.5." It's an author's choice to make, but I don't think it's one that most people would endorse. Another view is, "If there's an old way and a new way to do something, more browsers are likely to react as I wish to the old way. I must think of the tradeoffs between old and new, not just blindly say that 'new is better'." SignatureStan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Cortland County, New York, USA http://OakRoadSystems.com/ HTML 4.01 spec: http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/ validator: http://validator.w3.org/ CSS 2 spec: http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-CSS2/ 2.1 changes: http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/changes.html validator: http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/ >Thanks, Stan. So I understand the answer is to use 4.01 strict even though I >am targeting version 4 browsers. > >Now about the CSS. For version 4 browsers, should I be using CSS1 or CSS2? >Or is there a complex matrix of which CSS syntax is understood by those >browsers? It's pretty complex. Even parts of CSS1 are not supported at all reliably. Given that not many people use NN4 / IE4 any more, it's probably best to restrict yourself to a few simple colours and backgrounds, or even hide all the CSS. http://www.xs4all.nl/~sbpoley/webmatters/netscape4.html may help a bit. SignatureStephen Poley http://www.xs4all.nl/~sbpoley/webmatters/ |
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