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BMc - 25 Feb 2008 23:28 GMT

Hello all,

I have been wracking my brain over this issue for hours and think I have
determined that it isn't a java issue with the menu, but rather an issue
with the CSS of the element that contains it. Has anyone ever seen a
menu split like this before when you run the cursor over the menu items,
the submenu is all the way across the screen! And even better yet...if
you have, do you remember what you did to fix it??

My brain and my exhausted eyes will be ever so grateful. Thank you for
taking the time to look.

site address:

http://myweb.fltg.net/users/bethmcgee/folder4/sample4.html

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Beauregard T. Shagnasty - 26 Feb 2008 00:30 GMT

> I have been wracking my brain over this issue for hours and think I
> have determined that it isn't a java issue with the menu, but rather
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> even better yet...if you have, do you remember what you did to fix
> it??

Java menu? Do you mean JavaScript? (They are two different things.)

Do you realize that search engines do not read JavaScript, and will not
be able to spider your site? And that ~10% of visitors (those with
JavaScript disabled, or stripped by a corporate firewall) will not be
able to navigate it.

You are also hampering your visitors by putting your content in that
scrollable div, the bottom of which extends below my viewport. Since my
browser, Opera, does not recognize the incorrect overflow, I can only
see the top half or so of the content.

Users of Internet Explorer who have vision problems won't be able to
resize your text so they can read it. See:
http://k75s.home.att.net/fontsize.html
and note that font names with spaces in them need to be in quotes, and
that you've not assigned a fall-back generic.

Not found:
http://myweb.fltg.net/users/bethmcgee/folder4/style.css

You have CSS errors:
<http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/validator?uri=http%3A%2F%2Fmyweb.fltg.net%2Fu
sers%2Fbethmcgee%2Ffolder4%2Fsample4.html>

New documents should use a Strict doctype, not Transitional. And should
be HTML 4.01 Strict.

<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd">

On my 22" wide-screen monitor, it looks awfully lonesome so skinny there
in the middle. See:
http://allmyfaqs.net/faq.pl?AnySizeDesign

I finally saw what your question was about after I went wide. You have a
fly-out menu, and the sub-menu was off-screen at my normal size. See:
http://maetl.coretxt.net.nz/problem-with-css-dropdown-menus
http://www.message.uk.com/index.php?page=81

..can't say what's causing it.

This sort of thing:
    border-top-width: 0px;
    border-right-width: 0px;
    border-bottom-width: 0px;
    border-left-width: 0px;
    border-top-style: solid;
    border-right-style: solid;
    border-bottom-style: solid;
    border-left-style: solid;
    border-top-color: #232B5F;
    border-right-color: #232B5F;
    border-bottom-color: #232B5F;
    border-left-color: #232B5F;

can be written:
    border: 0px solid #232b5f;

(though why you want to assign something to a zero-width border is
questionable.)

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-bts
-Motorcycles defy gravity; cars just suck

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Jonathan N. Little - 26 Feb 2008 00:32 GMT

>> I have been wracking my brain over this issue for hours and think I
>> have determined that it isn't a java issue with the menu, but rather
[quoted text clipped - 64 lines]
> (though why you want to assign something to a zero-width border is
> questionable.)

Yes actually I would use

border: 0;

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Take care,

Jonathan
-------------------
LITTLE WORKS STUDIO
http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com

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BMc - 26 Feb 2008 11:43 GMT

Thanks for all of the pointers...
Yes, I do realize the issues with JavaScript menus and realize the
difference between Java and JavaScript. I have a client that wants this
menu style and I'm not going to argue, except to express that it is
costing her more for me to mess with it. I will be abandoning it today
and thus creating a menu that isn't as informative immediately to the
user, and rather hiding the information away on the pages for them to
seep through and find.

This site sample is in the build stage...not the final stage...and thus
I use whatever properties make it quickly and easily look the way I want
it to to get the positioning and colors and such the way I want.
Standards and shorthand come later when I go back and take care of the
text and clean up the code. It may seem backward, but it's my creative
process.

As far as Opera, as soon as they even reach 3% of the browser share, I
will spend my time including them in my focus group. I have it, am not
impressed and think they should devote more of their time becoming
compliant. My client has a lot to say and a scrollable box is the most
efficient way to do it without making the whole body of the site run on
forever which I do hate so. I'm on the web all the time and I don't
mind scrollable boxes. (Who does these web polls on user preferences
anyway??) I test it in IE7, IE6, Safari and Firefox, and since AOL
dropped Netscape, I am tempted to drop looking it over in that browser
as well.

I would love to use Percentages for my text, but then I run into issues
with inheritance. Just another headache. Since this is a simple site,
I will implement percentages in my final work up and see if there's
trouble.

Please tell me you will have some breakfast today and get out of bed
with a smile on your face Beau. I really love that you take the time to
look things over and critique. I just hope you are happier than you
sound when reading your posts. Thank you again.

>>> I have been wracking my brain over this issue for hours and think I
>>> have determined that it isn't a java issue with the menu, but rather
[quoted text clipped - 68 lines]
>
> border: 0;

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Beauregard T. Shagnasty - 26 Feb 2008 13:09 GMT

> As far as Opera, as soon as they even reach 3% of the browser share, I
> will spend my time including them in my focus group. I have it, am
> not impressed and think they should devote more of their time
> becoming compliant.

Um, Opera is one, if not the most, compliant browser you can find. Your
Ie's will fail this test dramatically. Safari finally gets it right, but
is also a small band of users.

http://www.webstandards.org/action/acid2/

> My client has a lot to say and a scrollable box is the most efficient
> way to do it without making the whole body of the site run on forever
> which I do hate so. I'm on the web all the time and I don't mind
> scrollable boxes.

The problem is users are used to vertical scrolling using the browser's
own scrollbar, but not used to noticing one somewhere in the middle of
the content area. Possibly not a large percentage, but how much, how
many, are you willing to give up for some esthetic reason?

> (Who does these web polls on user preferences anyway??) I test it in
> IE7, IE6, Safari and Firefox, and since AOL dropped Netscape, I am
> tempted to drop looking it over in that browser as well.

You should add Opera to that mix. Yes, Netscape is old. <g>

> I would love to use Percentages for my text, but then I run into
> issues with inheritance. Just another headache. Since this is a
> simple site, I will implement percentages in my final work up and see
> if there's trouble.

..and those IE users with poor vision? If you just allow the inheritance
to do the work for you, as shown on my fontsize page, you don't have to
worry. Stop thinking "pixel-perfect", it isn't achievable.

> Please tell me you will have some breakfast today and get out of bed
> with a smile on your face Beau. I really love that you take the time
> to look things over and critique. I just hope you are happier than
> you sound when reading your posts. Thank you again.

Bacon and eggs, yum. I am actually a very happy person; I just tend to
type concisely. Saves paper that way.

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-bts
-Friends don't let friends drive Vista

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Ben Bacarisse - 26 Feb 2008 13:31 GMT

<snip>

>... and a scrollable box is the
> most efficient way to do it without making the whole body of the site
> run on forever which I do hate so. I'm on the web all the time and I
> don't mind scrollable boxes.

Just a single data point, but they drive me mad. I'd much rather have
a long page. I scroll by moving my finger up and down the edge of my
touch pad, but if a scrollable box comes along and happens to be under
my cursor, then *that* scrolls, rather than the page. I have to start
taking note of where the cursor is on the page: out of the box if I
want to scroll the page, or in it if the page is kept short by means
of one.

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Ben.

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Bergamot - 26 Feb 2008 19:29 GMT

>>... and a scrollable box is the
>> most efficient way to do it without making the whole body of the site
>> run on forever which I do hate so. I'm on the web all the time and I
>> don't mind scrollable boxes.

Please remember that it's not about you, but your client's visitors.
Will they not mind, either? And how do you know?

> Just a single data point, but they drive me mad. I'd much rather have
> a long page.

Me too, but for different reasons than you.

> I scroll by moving my finger up and down the edge of my
> touch pad, but if a scrollable box comes along and happens to be under
> my cursor, then *that* scrolls, rather than the page.

I scroll completely by keyboard - page up/down keys, arrow keys, and the
spacebar. Scrolling divs are pretty inaccessible. :(

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Berg

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Bergamot - 26 Feb 2008 00:30 GMT

> determined that it isn't a java issue with the menu,

I assume you mean JavaScript, which is not the same thing as Java.

> but rather an issue
> with the CSS of the element that contains it.

Maybe...

> Has anyone ever seen a
> menu split like this before when you run the cursor over the menu items,
> http://myweb.fltg.net/users/bethmcgee/folder4/sample4.html

I don't see any menu at all. :( That's the problem of relying on JS for
navigation.

BTAIM, I didn't look at your code but after loading the page in the DOM
Inspector I see your positioning is whacked. It looks like you have no
containing block for your absolutely positioned submenus so it's
defaulting to body as the container. Have a read about positioning:
http://brainjar.com/css/positioning/

You might also want to have a read here:
http://www.message.uk.com/index.php?page=81

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Berg

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Webmaster Forum / HTML, CSS, Scripts / CSS / February 2008

menu problem