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Webmaster Forum / HTML, CSS, Scripts / CSS / December 2007Can a numbered list start at something > 1?
I sometimes need to do pages that are continued from a previous page, so the numbering needs to start with maybe 5. - is this possible? Or do I have to use manual numbering and borderless tables in order to achieve this? Dave Dave Rado wrote on 18 dec 2007 in comp.infosystems.www.authoring.stylesheets: > I sometimes need to do pages that are continued from a previous page, > so the numbering needs to start with maybe 5. - is this possible? Or > do I have to use manual numbering and borderless tables in order to > achieve this? <li value='123'>  SignatureEvertjan. The Netherlands. (Please change the x'es to dots in my emailaddress) > Dave Rado wrote on 18 dec 2007 in > comp.infosystems.www.authoring.stylesheets: [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > The Netherlands. > (Please change the x'es to dots in my emailaddress) That works great, many thanks. Dave > Dave Rado wrote on 18 dec 2007 in > comp.infosystems.www.authoring.stylesheets: [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > <li value='123'> According to the HTML 4.01 Strict specification, the Start and Value attributes of OL and LI, respectively, have been deprecated (http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/struct/lists.html#h-10.2). I don't know how it can be done legally; I can't find anything in CSS that covers this either. Strangely enough, the text then goes on to say: DETAILS ABOUT NUMBER ORDER. In ordered lists, it is not possible to continue list numbering automatically from a previous list or to hide numbering of some list items. However, authors can reset the number of a list item by setting its value attribute. Numbering continues from the new value for subsequent list items. For example: <ol> <li value="30"> makes this list item number 30. <li value="40"> makes this list item number 40. <li> makes this list item number 41. </ol> David Stardate 7963.7 SignaturePractice the Klingon language on the tlhIngan Hol MUSH. http://trimboli.name/klingon/mush.html >> Dave Rado wrote on 18 dec 2007 in >> comp.infosystems.www.authoring.stylesheets: [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > don't know how it can be done legally; I can't find anything > in CSS that covers this either. look for section 12.4 Automatic counters and numbering in the css 2.1 document Mind you, I can't agree with the w3c that the number that lists start at is a purely presentational matter. SignatureJón Fairbairn Jon.Fairbairn@cl.cam.ac.uk .oO(Jon Fairbairn) >> According to the HTML 4.01 Strict specification, the Start >> and Value attributes of OL and LI, respectively, have been [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] >12.4 Automatic counters and numbering >in the css 2.1 document And the browser support for counters is ... OK, let's forget that. >Mind you, I can't agree with the w3c that the number that lists start at >is a purely presentational matter. Correct. That's why I use 'ul' and my own numbering if the numbers are important. Micha > .oO(Jon Fairbairn) > [quoted text clipped - 18 lines] > > Micha Hi Michael How do you use your own numbering? Dave .oO(Dave Rado) >> .oO(Jon Fairbairn) >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > >How do you use your own numbering? If I need my own numbering I simply write them in the HTML as normal text, maybe wrapped into a 'span' to allow for a different styling: <ul> <li>1. ...</li> <li>2. ... <ul> <li>2a. ...</li> <li>2b. ...</li> </ul> </li> </ul> This becomes especially important when publishing juridical texts and laws for example - the numbers for the paragraphs, sections etc. _must_ be there and they _must_ be correct. That's why I can't rely on client- side auto-numbering in this case - it could mean a lot of trouble. Micha Wed, 19 Dec 2007 02:49:01 +0100 from Michael Fesser <netizen@gmx.de>: > If I need my own numbering I simply write them in the HTML as normal > text, maybe wrapped into a 'span' to allow for a different styling: [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > <li>2. ... > <ul> But then you've got bullets *and* numbers, which looks dreadful. SignatureStan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA http://OakRoadSystems.com/ HTML 4.01 spec: http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/ validator: http://validator.w3.org/ CSS 2.1 spec: http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/ validator: http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/ Why We Won't Help You: http://diveintomark.org/archives/2003/05/05/why_we_wont_help_you .oO(Stan Brown) >Wed, 19 Dec 2007 02:49:01 +0100 from Michael Fesser <netizen@gmx.de>: >> If I need my own numbering I simply write them in the HTML as normal [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > >But then you've got bullets *and* numbers, which looks dreadful. The bullets can easily be removed with CSS. How it looks without CSS doesn't matter as long as the numbers are there. Micha > .oO(Stan Brown) > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Micha My original question really was asking *how* to remove the bullets with css, especially if you are also using real bullets in the same website. .oO(Dave Rado) >My original question really was asking *how* to remove the bullets >with css, especially if you are also using real bullets in the same >website. 'list-style-type' http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/generate.html#list-style Micha > .oO(Dave Rado) > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Micha Hi Michael That seems to work in Firefox but not in IE, when I try it. In my css file, I have: ul.numbering { list-style-type: none; list-style: none;} In my web page I have: <ul class="numbering"> <li>test</li> </ul> In IE (but not in Firefox), the bullets are still displayed. Am I missing something out? Dave > > .oO(Dave Rado) > [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > > Dave Just so you can see what I've done (wrong?), I've uploaded a mock-up <a href="http://tinyurl.com/2b2uww">here</a>. The css file is <a href="http://tinyurl.com/26v5gh">here</a>. Dave >>> .oO(Dave Rado) >>>> My original question really was asking *how* to remove the bullets [quoted text clipped - 23 lines] > <a href="http://tinyurl.com/2b2uww">here</a>. The css file is <a > href="http://tinyurl.com/26v5gh">here</a>. Well you don't see bullets because your most general rule calls for the image, sort of... UL { ... list-style: url(Bullet.jpg); } actually better to use specific property "list-style-image:" Then you contradict that with a more specific rule: ul.numbering { list-style-type: none; list-style: none;} "Doubly" to make sure to disable it! So you will not see bullets. Also your table-layout with images to make your box is not needed can can easily be done with one styled DIV: <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01//EN" "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/strict.dtd"> <html> <head> <meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"> <meta http-equiv="content-language" content="en-us"> <title>Simpler</title> <style type="text/css"> body { color: #000; background-color: #aca899; padding: 10%; } div.boxed { border-top: 1px solid #000; border-right: 3px solid #000; border-bottom: 3px solid #000; border-left: 1px solid #000; padding: 2em; background-color: #fff; } </style> <script type="text/javascript"> </script> </head> <body> <div class="boxed"> <h1>Much Simpler</h1> <p>Test....</p> </div> </body> </html> SignatureTake care, Jonathan ------------------- LITTLE WORKS STUDIO http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com Hi Jonathan Sorry for the delayed reply - I've been offline for a few days. > Well you don't see bullets because your most general rule calls for the > image, sort of... [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > > "Doubly" to make sure to disable it! So you will not see bullets. But I'm trying to create a style of bullet that can be used for manual numbering, as others in the thread say they do; but I still want my main bullet style (ul) to have a graphical bullet. Using "list-style- image" instead of "list-style" in the ul definition makes no difference, when I try it - the "ul.numbering" style definition is still over-ridden by the ul style when viewed in IE - see my updated mock-up at http://tinyurl.com/2b2uww and my updated stylesheet at http://tinyurl.com/2l4mue. > Also your table-layout with images to make your box is not needed can > can easily be done with one styled DIV: [quoted text clipped - 37 lines] > > Jonathan Very clever, but my simulated "document page" needs to have a fixed width, whereas your "box" resizes if you resize your window. Is there a way of doing it without tables that allows you to make the "box" 700 pixels wide regardless of the window size (and for it to still be horizontally centred on the page)? Also on some pages I need to be able to put things in the grey area above the simulated "document page", which is easy using tables (the "page" has a grey row above the white bit) - but can this be done easilywith your method? Dave > Very clever, but my simulated "document page" needs to have a fixed > width, whereas your "box" resizes if you resize your window. Is there > a way of doing it without tables that allows you to make the "box" 700 > pixels wide regardless of the window size (and for it to still be > horizontally centred on the page)? Yes, as stated by in your multi-posted message in comp.infosystems.www.authoring.html by John http://message-id.net/<47735ebf$1_4@news.bluewin.ch> > Also on some pages I need to be able to put things in the grey area > above the simulated "document page", which is easy using tables (the > "page" has a grey row above the white bit) - but can this be done > easilywith your method? But as I pointed out there, a fixed 700px page makes things difficult for small screens... SignatureTake care, Jonathan ------------------- LITTLE WORKS STUDIO http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com > > Very clever, but my simulated "document page" needs to have a fixed > > width, whereas your "box" resizes if you resize your window. Is there [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > ------------------- > LITTLE WORKS STUDIOhttp://www.LittleWorksStudio.com All graphics of any significant width also make life difficult for small screens - do you want to ban graphics from the web as well? Some content is appropropriate for people using small screens, and other content is not. You can't cater for everyone all of the time. Life is full of compromises. Dave Dave > All graphics of any significant width also make life difficult for > small screens - do you want to ban graphics from the web as well? Some > content is appropropriate for people using small screens, and other > content is not. You can't cater for everyone all of the time. Life is > full of compromises. True, but we are not talking about images but text, so why create the artificial barrier? With respect to images, I would refrain from 700px to ones 300-500px. SignatureTake care, Jonathan ------------------- LITTLE WORKS STUDIO http://www.LittleWorksStudio.com > > All graphics of any significant width also make life difficult for > > small screens - do you want to ban graphics from the web as well? Some [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > ------------------- > LITTLE WORKS STUDIOhttp://www.LittleWorksStudio.com I'm not talking about text, I'm talking about *documents*, that contain text *and* graphics *and* sometimes complex multi-column display tables, *and* all the other elements that one might see in a long technical report or book. The simulated "document page" incorporates left and right "page margins" (think of how a Word document looks on screen). The area containing text and graphics is approx 600 px, which isn't that much wider than what you consider to be appropriate (and a lot of graphs would be very hard to read if compressed to under 500px wide). (And in answer to a point made by someone else, PDF is great for when you want to print a document and read it right through, but for reading documents on-screen, or for dipping in and out, or for linking to passages within a document, web pages have many advantages over PDF, so I provide users with both formats. For instance, you can easily link from a blog post to a bookmark or even to an image, on a particular page of an html "document",but not so easily in the case of PDF. And users are mostly very resistent to downloading large PDFs when all they want to read is maybe two paragraphs on page 49, say. So saying "if you want nice layout, always use PDF" smacks of absolutism to me. I think general guidelines are great, but absolutism in my opinion, is the biggest no-no of all. Dave >> In my web page I have: >> [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > I've uploaded a mock-up > http://tinyurl.com/2b2uww Don't take this personally, but that's some ugly code you've got there. I didn't even try to weed through your CSS. All I will say is that IE handles margins and padding on lists differently than Firefox. Why don't you go for something simpler, and drop the legacy cruft? http://www.bergamotus.ws/samples/daverado.html SignatureBerg > >> In my web page I have: > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > -- > Berg Hi Berg Sorry for the delayed reply - I've been offline for a few days. With regard to the "bulletless bullets", I get the same problem with your code as with my own - if the ul style uses a graphical bullet then so does <ul class="numbering">, when viewed in IE - IE seems to ignore the "list-style: none" definition for the latter. See http://tinyurl.com/299sjq, which uses your code but my stylesheet. With regards to your <div class="wrapper"> suggestion, I get the same problem with it as with Jonathan's "box" - I need the simulated "document page" to have a fixed width and I can't see any way to achieve that with your method - is it possible? Dave Dave Rado wrote on 27 dec 2007 in comp.infosystems.www.authoring.stylesheets: > With regards to your <div class="wrapper"> suggestion, I get the same > problem with it as with Jonathan's "box" - I need the simulated > "document page" to have a fixed width and I can't see any way to > achieve that with your method - is it possible? In general, if lists do not turn out as you like, why not use a table? <style type='text/css'> .t td.l {text-align:right; padding:0 5px 5px 15px; font-weight:bold;} </style> <table class=t> <tr><td class=l>1.<td>Blah blah <tr><td class=l>100.<td>Blah blah <tr><td class=l>7.<td>Blah blah <tr><td class=l>12.<td>Blah blah </table> SignatureEvertjan. The Netherlands. (Please change the x'es to dots in my emailaddress) Scripsit Evertjan.: > In general, > if lists do not turn out as you like, > why not use a table? Or if you really have a table, why would you use list markup for it? > <style type='text/css'> > .t td.l {text-align:right; [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > <tr><td class=l>12.<td>Blah blah > </table> This really looks like a table, consisting of pairs (rows) of numbers and pieces of text. List markup would be less natural, and why would you use CSS to create such a strange numbering? Besides, CSS is currently ineffective in such issues. Using HTML, with <td value="...">, would work, for some values of "work", but if the numbers are nowhere near to consecutive, this really doesn't look like a numbered list. It would be slightly more logical to use <th> markup for the cells containing numbers, since they presumable act as row headings of a kind. Then you would not need the class=l attributes. SignatureJukka K. Korpela ("Yucca") http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/ > Scripsit Evertjan.: > [quoted text clipped - 30 lines] > -- > Jukka K. Korpela ("Yucca")http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/ Hi Jukka I don't know where those numbers came from - my lists all use sequential numbering. Dave > Dave Rado wrote on 27 dec 2007 in > comp.infosystems.www.authoring.stylesheets: [quoted text clipped - 25 lines] > The Netherlands. > (Please change the x'es to dots in my emailaddress) Hi Evertjan I'm not sure where those numbers came from - I always use sequential numbering in my lists (although a complication is that I often use outline numbering; and another complication is that I prefer left- aligned to right-aligned numbering, which I've posted about in a separate thread). The reason for sometimes wanting a list to start at something other than 1, which I posted about originally, was when a list is a continuation from a previous page - but VK suggested using <ol start="number"> for that situation, which seems to work well. I have always used tables for all my lists up to now, but I'm trying to see whether I can use css instead. I think you may be misreading what I wrote to Berg - the section of my post that you quoted was regarding his suggestion not to use a table for the design of the simulated "document page" but to use a div wrapper instead. Dave Dave Rado wrote on 27 dec 2007 in comp.infosystems.www.authoring.stylesheets: >> Dave Rado wrote on 27 dec 2007 in >> comp.infosystems.www.authoring.stylesheets: [quoted text clipped - 20 lines] >> <tr><td class=l>12.<td>Blah blah >> </table> [please do not quote signatures] > Hi Evertjan > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > aligned to right-aligned numbering, which I've posted about in a > separate thread). The numbers were just to show that they are a free choice. You could start by 2 and number consecutive, number by Javascript or numbr this serverside. ASP-JS example: <tr><th><%= n=2 %>.<td>.... <tr><th><%= ++n %>.<td>.... <tr><th><%= ++n %>.<td>.... <tr><th><%= ++n %>.<td>.... > The reason for sometimes wanting a list to start at something other > than 1, which I posted about originally, was when a list is a [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > I have always used tables for all my lists up to now, but I'm trying > to see whether I can use css instead. meseems it is <ol><li> in sted of <table>, both are CSS changeable. > I think you may be misreading what I wrote to Berg - the section of my > post that you quoted was regarding his suggestion not to use a table > for the design of the simulated "document page" but to use a div > wrapper instead. I see, Dave. SignatureEvertjan. The Netherlands. (Please change the x'es to dots in my emailaddress) In article <70123fbe-36fd-4924-b1be-a89191f916a6@a35g2000prf.googlegroups.co m>, > I have always used tables for all my lists up to now, but I'm trying > to see whether I can use css instead. Just to make one thing clear, if the list is unordered then almost always the right thing to do is to use a proper unordered html list and style it. So it is important to keep trying on this one. The situation with ordered lists is different, here there is less pressure for reasons I have given you, to try too hard. Signaturedorayme Hi dorayme > In article > <70123fbe-36fd-4924-b1be-a89191f91...@a35g2000prf.googlegroups.co [quoted text clipped - 11 lines] > -- > dorayme By unordered list, do you mean bullets? I already do use css for bullets. Dave In article <8dfe2679-eec5-45d0-9b3d-82d0c7f34ef4@e25g2000prg.googlegroups.co m>, > Hi dorayme > [quoted text clipped - 16 lines] > By unordered list, do you mean bullets? I already do use css for > bullets. There are a number of types of HTML lists, which one you use will depend on the meaning you wish to convey. Certainly, by default, <ul>s have bullets. But one can still have unordered lists without bullets (if I were to count all mine, I'd say more are unbulleted than bulleted). These days, authors are using lists quite appropriately for horizontal menus; bullets are rarely appropriate here. The meaning of an unordered list is simply that it is a list and the order does not matter. Hubbie is told to go and buy: bread milk fags It does not matter which order these occur in. A ul would be fine for a wife to use who was keen to keep her distance from her husband and communicate only via a web page*. An ordered list is different, the wife posts this: Take dress to the tailor and have him alter it ... Take dress to the dry cleaners and have it cleaned and pressed. Now, this is pretty unambiguous. The numbers don't really matter, the order does matter here. If the wife was not very good at html and used a ul, the poor schmuck husband (who uses a voice reader maybe) might have the thing cleaned and pressed before taking it to the tailor. ---------------------- * ... even email being too intimate. I knew a married couple once who lived in the same flat and did not talk a single word to each other for at least two decades (according to my mother). I was truly fascinated by this and actually saw it in operation. They never rowed or anything, she was a powerhouse of chat and a wonderful cook and host, he was still at the table, they simply never addressed or referred to one another - ever! I assume they had separate bedrooms although I have to confess, it crossed my mind when I was old enough to have such thoughts that if they shared the same bed, the situation would have been one of the wonders of the world along with the Sydney Opera House and the Taj Mahal. I would question my mother incessantly about them not talking. My mother got pretty fed up of my appetite for an explanation!). Signaturedorayme >> >http://tinyurl.com/2b2uww >> [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > ignore the "list-style: none" definition for the latter. See > http://tinyurl.com/299sjq, which uses your code but my stylesheet. Your stylesheet is probably the problem, but it's too hard to read so I haven't even tried to weed out the particular offending/conflicting rules. It's likely a specificity issue. IE is probably confused. Big surprise. > I need the simulated > "document page" to have a fixed width You still haven't given a good reason why that is. It sounds like an unnecessary limitation. In another post of yours: "The area containing text and graphics is approx 600 px" Graphics should have a fixed width, but there's no reason why text has to be, too. Setting text width in px units is just wrong, anyway. There is no relationship between font size and however many px you set. In your fixed width, larger font sizes may get very short lines of text and smaller font sizes may have lines too long; both are bad for comfortable reading. px is just the wrong choice for text width. SignatureBerg >> .oO(Dave Rado) >> [quoted text clipped - 21 lines] > In IE (but not in Firefox), the bullets are still displayed. Am I > missing something out? DOCTYPE? Quirks mode probably. There's not enough information in what you've posted above to diagnose the problem. SignatureJón Fairbairn Jon.Fairbairn@cl.cam.ac.uk > >> .oO(Dave Rado) > [quoted text clipped - 28 lines] > -- > Jón Fairbairn Jon.Fairba...@cl.cam.ac.uk Hi Jon See my mock-up and stylesheet in post 14. Dave >> > In IE (but not in Firefox), the bullets are still displayed. Am I >> > missing something out? >> >> DOCTYPE? Quirks mode probably. There's not enough >> information in what you've posted above to diagnose the >> problem. > See my mock-up and stylesheet in post 14. Um, you do realise that the numbers on the posts are relative to what server you are getting your news from and what you read last time you looked? Anyhow, the page at <http://tinyurl.com/2b2uww> (in post 36 where I'm looking at it) has no DOCTYPE declaration, so IE will go into quirks mode. Google for DOCTYPE and "quirks mode". Essentially, without a doctype, IE won't even attempt to follow standard behavior. SignatureJón Fairbairn Jon.Fairbairn@cl.cam.ac.uk Hi Jon Sorry for the delayed reply - I've been offline for a few days. > >> > In IE (but not in Firefox), the bullets are still displayed. Am I > >> > missing something out? [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > relative to what server you are getting your news from and > what you read last time you looked? Sorry I forgot this was the usenet - I'm more used to posting in web- only newsgroups these days. > Anyhow, the page at <http://tinyurl.com/2b2uww> (in post 36 > where I'm looking at it) has no DOCTYPE declaration, so IE > will go into quirks mode. Google for DOCTYPE and "quirks > mode". Essentially, without a doctype, IE won't even > attempt to follow standard behavior. I've added a DOCTYPE declaration now, but I still get the same problem when the page is viewed in IE. Dave > .oO(Dave Rado) > [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > Micha Hi again Michael (I'm reposting this reply because my previous attempt at posting it seems to have got lost in the ether for some reason). Just so you can see what I'm doing (wrong?), I've uploaded a mock-up of my attempt at implementing your suggestion, <a href="http://tinyurl.com/ 2b2uww">here</a>; and the stylesheet it's using is <a href="http:// tinyurl.com/26v5gh">here</a>. In my mock-up, the bullets are suppressed in Firefox but not in IE. Dave .oO(Dave Rado) >(I'm reposting this reply because my previous attempt at posting it >seems to have got lost in the ether for some reason). Just so you can [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] >tinyurl.com/26v5gh">here</a>. In my mock-up, the bullets are >suppressed in Firefox but not in IE. First you should add a proper document type declaration. Without one the page will be rendered in quirks mode in most browsers, where all kinds of strange things may happen. Then you could try to apply the 'list-style' property to the 'li' elements instead of the 'ul'. It should work both ways since 'list- style' is inherited, but you never know what IE makes of it ... Additionally you don't need both 'list-style-type' and 'list-style' - the second is a just shorthand property and already contains/sets the first one. Micha Hi Micha Sorry for the delayed reply - I've been offline for a few days. > First you should add a proper document type declaration. Without one the > page will be rendered in quirks mode in most browsers, where all kinds > of strange things may happen. I've now done so, but the problem is still there. > Then you could try to apply the 'list-style' property to the 'li' > elements instead of the 'ul'. It should work both ways since 'list- > style' is inherited, but you never know what IE makes of it ... I've tried that now, but it makes no difference - see: http://tinyurl.com/2lzxwk. > Additionally you don't need both 'list-style-type' and 'list-style' - > the second is a just shorthand property and already contains/sets the > first one. I did both out of desperation because neither was working on its own! Dave > .oO(Jon Fairbairn) > [quoted text clipped - 10 lines] > > And the browser support for counters is ... present in the most recent versions of most real browsers? Completely absent in the most common browser? > OK, let's forget that. Yes, I should have mentioned that, perhaps, but I was more focused on this bit: >>Mind you, I can't agree with the w3c that the number that lists start at >>is a purely presentational matter. > > Correct. That's why I use 'ul' and my own numbering if the numbers are > important. I have the impression that folk here have often said that one should always use the strict dtd for new documents, "because you aren't transitioning from anything". But aren't we all transitioning from a world where the most commonly used browser has terrible support for css to one where, ... where, ... er, I'm not sure where, but it definitely feels like a state of transition. Or are all the "transitional" attributes (such as start for ol and value for li) so flakily supported in old versions of IE that it's safer to get the results some other way? SignatureJón Fairbairn Jon.Fairbairn@cl.cam.ac.uk > Dave Rado wrote on 18 dec 2007 in > comp.infosystems.www.authoring.stylesheets: [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > > <li value='123'> However important it would be now, IE up to IE6 has different interpretation of <li value="123">. It was treated as temporary numbering change for that one element, so the resulting list from <ol> <li>one</li> <li value="123">two</li> <li>three</li> </ol> would be: 1. one 123. two 3. three In case of continued numbering I would use more standard start attribute for the list itself: <ol start="10"> <li>one</li> <li>two</li> <li>three</li> </ol> gives: 10. one 11. two 12. three > I sometimes need to do pages that are continued from a previous page, > so the numbering needs to start with maybe 5. - is this possible? No. The spec says you can, but current implementations of it aren't good enough to let you use it practically. Best work-around is to generate the numbering server-side, not client-side, which is simple, obvious and robust. You can mark-up the HTML using <ul>, and embed an explict number with <li><span>123</span> ... </li> Use trivial CSS to switch off the bullets and to indent or outdent the numbers. > > I sometimes need to do pages that are continued from a previous page, > > so the numbering needs to start with maybe 5. - is this possible? [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Use trivial CSS to switch off the bullets and to indent or outdent the > numbers. How does one generate numbers server side? And how do you switch off the bullets in a ul list? Dave > How does one generate numbers server side? And how do you switch off > the bullets in a ul list? Well, one way would be to display your page with a CGI script, and using a 2-column borderless table to fabricate your lists. The numbers, in column 1, are thus determined by your program, and can be anything. I have a decimal to roman conversion subroutine that I sometimes use in these circumstances. No doubt php could do something similar. We're drifting away from stylesheets here, so it won't be long before someone comes to shout at us. SignatureSteve Swift http://www.swiftys.org.uk/swifty.html http://www.ringers.org.uk > > I sometimes need to do pages that are continued from a previous page, > > so the numbering needs to start with maybe 5. - is this possible? [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > Use trivial CSS to switch off the bullets and to indent or outdent the > numbers. Also, what's wrong with VK's suggestion of using <ol start="10">? Dave > Also, what's wrong with VK's suggestion of using <ol start="10">? There is nothing wrong in that, "type" and "start" attributes or <ol> element are properly supported by all browsers from the most old ones (NN3/IE3 at least) to the most recent ones. Simply some people in this group do hate these attributes with passion out of theoretical reasons. P.S. In my first post "IE up to IE6 has different interpretation of <li value="123">" should be "IE before IE6 has different interpretation of <li value="123">" > > Also, what's wrong with VK's suggestion of using <ol start="10">? > [quoted text clipped - 7 lines] > <li value="123">" should be "IE before IE6 has different > interpretation of <li value="123">" Many thanks VK - I'l go with the "Start" atrribute then, for simpler lists. For more complex ones (like outline lists), I wish someone would explain how to suppress the bullets in ul tags (without supressing them when doing proper bullets - two people have said it's very easy, but no-one has said how to do it, although I've asked twice. cgi is WAY over my head. Dave |
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