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Webmaster Forum / HTML, CSS, Scripts / CSS / December 2005CSS ignored in IE.6.0.2800 ?
Hi, I created a CSS that work fine on my IE 6.0.2900 (SP2) but I'm having customers that have problems with it and they're on IE 6.0.2800 (SP1)... The problem looks like if the stylesheet (in particular the class LigneTableau_Noir_SansHauteur) was ignored. Could you test this code on your browser and tell me if you see this particular points : - all cells have a left border of 1px black except cells "val3" and "val5" - the first link is on the left of the cell and is black and bold - the second link is centered in the cell and its color is the browser default color for a link - all values are centered in their cell Thanks in advance, I just have no more ideas after 2 days of headache ! Thierry38080 <html><head><title>Test</title> <style type="text/css"> TD { FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial, Verdana, 'Courier New', 'Times New Roman' } .LigneTableau_Noir_SansHauteur tr { TEXT-ALIGN: center; } .LigneTableau_Noir_SansHauteur td { border-color: black; border-left-style: solid; border-left-width: 1px; } .LigneTableau_Noir_SansHauteur td.sans { border-right-style: none; border-left-style: none; } .LigneTableau_Noir_SansHauteur td.celD2 { border-left-style: none; border-right-style: solid; border-right-width: 1px; } .LigneTableau_Noir_SansHauteur a.lien { color: #000000; font-weight: bold; } </style></head> <body leftmargin="10" topmargin="10" marginwidth="10" marginheight="10"> <table width="700" align="center"> <span class="LigneTableau_Noir_SansHauteur"> <tr id="li0"> <td align="left"> <a href="javascript:;" class="lien">Test link</a></td> <td><a href="javascript:;">Another link</a></td> <td>0</td><td>val1</td> <td><input type="text" size="4" maxlength="4" tabindex="1" id="first0" name="0_Quantite" class="ZoneDeSaisie" value="12"/></td> <td><b>val2</b></td><td class="sans">val3</td> <td>val4</td><td class="celD2">val5</td> </tr> </span> </table> </body> </html> > Hi, > [quoted text clipped - 13 lines] > > Thanks in advance, I just have no more ideas after 2 days of headache ! <snip code> If you put that code in a page and put it online, more people are willing to have a look. Also, since you are talking about a particular class possibly being ignored, there could be an error in the real stylesheet, that isn't copied into the code you gave. Best show real online examples, especially when looking for an error.  SignatureEls http://locusmeus.com/ Sonhos vem. Sonhos vão. O resto é imperfeito. - Renato Russo - Now playing: Pearl Jam - Black >> I created a CSS that work fine on my IE 6.0.2900 (SP2) but I'm having >> customers that have problems with it and they're on IE 6.0.2800 [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > <snip code> <snip my own reply> Oh, and you can't have a <span> between <table> and <tr>. Validate your code and weird problems may disappear, you never know... SignatureEls http://locusmeus.com/ Sonhos vem. Sonhos vão. O resto é imperfeito. - Renato Russo - Now playing: Pearl Jam - Black You're right Els and in fact it's not the exact code. I had already made changes but I took an old version of my code, sorry :-( In fact, even after the change, my customers still have exactly the same problem. I'll put this code on line as soon as I can but for the moment it is not possible. That's the good one (only the table code) : <table width="700" align="center" class="LigneTableau_Noir_SansHauteur"> <tr id="li0"> <td align="left"> <a href="javascript:;" class="lien">Test link</a></td> <td><a href="javascript:;">Another link</a></td> <td>0</td><td>val1</td> <td><input type="text" size="4" maxlength="4" tabindex="1" id="first0" name="0_Quantite" class="ZoneDeSaisie" value="12"/></td> <td><b>val2</b></td><td class="sans">val3</td> <td>val4</td><td class="celD2">val5</td> </tr> </table> I put a link to my code here : http://tschinfo.free.fr/test.html > I put a link to my code here : > > http://tschinfo.free.fr/test.html Now if you would quote the relevant bits of messages you reply to, I wouldn't have to go back to find the first message to remember what the problem was with that page. If you think GoogleGroups is to blame for your non-quoting style, please read this link before replying: http://www.safalra.com/special/googlegroupsreply/ Anyway - your first message said that people with IE SP1 'have problems', and that one particular class seems to be ignored. I don't have SP1, but the page displays the same in IE5.5, IE6.0 and Opera 8.5. on my Win XP box. What exactly is it that is different for your SP1 visitors? SignatureEls http://locusmeus.com/ Sonhos vem. Sonhos vão. O resto é imperfeito. - Renato Russo - Now playing: Skunk Anansie - All in the Name of Pity So, I repost my answer here, excuse me one again, I'm familiar with GoogleGroups but not Usenet... > > I put a link to my code here : > > [quoted text clipped - 6 lines] > Opera 8.5. on my Win XP box. What exactly is it that is different for > your SP1 visitors? The problem is that the style "LigneTableau_Noir_SansHauteur" seems not to be considered for these users. The whole cells are without any style : no left border of 1px, items not centered, and link in blue (default) insted of black like the class "LigneTableau_Noir_SansHauteur a.lien" is intended to do... >> > http://tschinfo.free.fr/test.html > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > not centered, and link in blue (default) insted of black like the class > "LigneTableau_Noir_SansHauteur a.lien" is intended to do... The left border disappeared because you explicitly specified it in td.sans and td.celD12. Delete "border-left-style:none". The right border looks strange because you left the color to the browser's imagination. The cells do not center because you did not specify it. You did for <tr> but that contains only <td>s, not text. Move "text-align:center" to td. I had no problem with the link color. It works like you specified it. Signaturejmm (hyphen) list (at) sohnen-moe (dot) com (Remove .AXSPAMGN for email) > The left border disappeared because you explicitly specified it in > td.sans and td.celD12. Delete "border-left-style:none". No, I want that, the cols val3 and val5 don't have left border and it's normal. Because the "td" is defined with a left border, I had to declare another class "sans" (it's french, that means "without") and celD2 is the rightest cell of my table. I know, it's a bit complicated, but I have a big problematic of HTML weight. I have to factorize the more I can to produce the lightest code. In production environment, this table can contain more than 600 lines, so I must have the less css code. So I prefer make a global td class with a left border, and apply a specific class to the cells that do not have a left border. > The right border looks strange because you left the color to the > browser's imagination. I don't think so because the border-color is defined for the td class > The cells do not center because you did not specify it. You did for <tr> > but that contains only <td>s, not text. Move "text-align:center" to td. You're right, that's a mistake, I corrected it ! > I had no problem with the link color. It works like you specified it. That's the problem in fact, I didn't find anyone that had a problem displaying this page ! My customers says that they don't even see the borders nor the link colors... I think I'm going to : - remove the unserscores in class names - apply the class on each tr (<tr class="LigneTableauNoirSansHauteur" ...) and restest it with my customers... Thanks a lot ! >> I had no problem with the link color. It works like you specified it. > > That's the problem in fact, I didn't find anyone that had a problem > displaying this page ! > My customers says that they don't even see the borders nor the link > colors... What browser are they using? Can you post an URL for a complete page? There is apparently something else that prevents the display you desire. Signaturejmm (hyphen) list (at) sohnen-moe (dot) com (Remove .AXSPAMGN for email) Jim Moe a écrit : > What browser are they using? > Can you post an URL for a complete page? There is apparently something > else that prevents the display you desire. I'm using IE 6.0.2900 on Win XP SP2 and the customers having this problem are on IE 6.0.2800 on Win XP SP1. Since the beginning, I made a few changes on my code : - I removed the undescores in the class names - I apply a class on each TR tag now : <tr class="LigneTableauNoirSansHauteur" id="li0"> But it still not works... I dream of that problem each night now, it's a nightmare... Do you think that the id="li0" on the TR tag could be a problem ? Perhaps does the browser make a confusion between the id and the class... Also, is this syntax correct ? .LigneTableauNoirSansHauteur td { border-color: black; border-left-style: solid; border-left-width: 1px; } This means that all TD tags within a LigneTableauNoirSansHauteur class must have a border on the left, doesn't it ? Am I wrong ? Is ther another way to do so ? Because all my program is based on that, in order to lighten the code at its maximum... Finally, I can't give a link to a full page because the site is on intranet. But I took the fisrt line of the table in the page that cause problem, I didn't modify anything else (except moving the css style for an external stylesheet to the page itself). Thanks for your help ! > Jim Moe a écrit : > [quoted text clipped - 31 lines] > I didn't modify anything else (except moving the css style for an > external stylesheet to the page itself). But..: Did you show the example you made for us to your clients as well? Did they confirm to have the same problem in the example as they are having on the real page? I think to find out the problem, you need to start with the most basic of tables, nothing else on the page, and be on the phone with one hopefully helpful client, and keep adding stuff until s/he says it goes wrong. SignatureEls http://locusmeus.com/ Sonhos vem. Sonhos vão. O resto é imperfeito. - Renato Russo - Now playing: Chumbawamba - Mouthful of sh.t > But..: Did you show the example you made for us to your clients as > well? Did they confirm to have the same problem in the example as they [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > hopefully helpful client, and keep adding stuff until s/he says it > goes wrong. I agree with you, this would be the better way to proceed, but it's not possible because my customers are working very hard and don't have any time to spend to help me... >> But..: Did you show the example you made for us to your clients as >> well? Did they confirm to have the same problem in the example as they [quoted text clipped - 8 lines] > possible because my customers are working very hard and don't have any > time to spend to help me... Well, if you validate your code, and it's working on everybody's system except on theirs, and they don't have time to find out whether it's a setting on their system... not much more you can do really. (unless you can still find someone else on SP1 to confirm your problem of course) But you didn't answer my question - did your customer confirm the problem was apparent in your example as well? It's very much possible it isn't, and the problem lies elsewhere in the stylesheet or HTML code of the real page. SignatureEls http://locusmeus.com/ Sonhos vem. Sonhos vão. O resto é imperfeito. - Renato Russo - Now playing: Pearl Jam - Daughter Els a écrit : > Well, if you validate your code, and it's working on everybody's > system except on theirs, and they don't have time to find out whether > it's a setting on their system... not much more you can do really. I have a group of 9 customers that are trying new functionnalities of our intranet. In this little group, I already have 3 that have this problem. I don't think it's a problem of system configuration because it seems like the class was ignored... I have to resolve the problem because in 2 weeks we will upload these new functionnalities for the whole intranet (about 180 customers). I can't imagine having 60 customers calling me for a problem I would have ignored... > (unless you can still find someone else on SP1 to confirm your problem > of course) Exactly, I think I have no choice but installing a SP1 machine on a partition to try this... > But you didn't answer my question - did your customer confirm the > problem was apparent in your example as well? It's very much possible > it isn't, and the problem lies elsewhere in the stylesheet or HTML > code of the real page. For the same reason, they don't have a minute to test my exemple, they simply want it to work, I know, it's very boring but I don't have any other choice... > Els a écrit : > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > Exactly, I think I have no choice but installing a SP1 machine on a > partition to try this... Or erm.. have your customers upgrade to SP2 ... >> But you didn't answer my question - did your customer confirm the >> problem was apparent in your example as well? It's very much possible [quoted text clipped - 4 lines] > simply want it to work, I know, it's very boring but I don't have any > other choice... And you are sure your actual Intranet real page with problem validates? Cause really, if the example you gave us isn't tested to show the problem, how are we ever gonna be able to find what's wrong? Problems are usually caused by combinations that are bad, and if you only took one piece from the problem to show in an example, chances are that in that example there is no problem. FWIW, you could easily have a contradicting style somewhere in your stylesheet, or a parent element in the HTML. You won't find that by validating though, nor by showing us half the code. SignatureEls http://locusmeus.com/ Sonhos vem. Sonhos vão. O resto é imperfeito. - Renato Russo - Now playing: Pearl Jam - Black >I put a link to my code here : > >http://tschinfo.free.fr/test.html http://homepage.ntlworld.ie/spartanicus/temp.png SignatureSpartanicus Spartanicus a écrit : > http://homepage.ntlworld.ie/spartanicus/temp.png Arggggg ! I don't understand anything more now... Thank you for your help Spartanicus, there are two alternatives now : - my test page is correct but it's not the reflect of the reality because it's just a portion of the whole page - SP1 is not the cause of the problem ? I'm going to contact one of these 3 customers having trouble, I can't do anything else, so don't you, I thank you very much for your help and your patience (and your comprehension for my poor english...) I come back and give you news as soon as possible ! thierry38080 a écrit : > I'm going to contact one of these 3 customers having trouble, I can't > do anything else, so don't you, I thank you very much for your help and > your patience (and your comprehension for my poor english...) > I come back and give you news as soon as possible ! I just put online the complete page that causes problems : http://tschinfo.free.fr/test.html Could you test it and telle me if you see the vertical lines ? Thanks a lot and merry christmas !!! >I just put online the complete page that causes problems : >http://tschinfo.free.fr/test.html >Could you test it and telle me if you see the vertical lines ? I'd say you've got far more urgent problems to fix like overlapping content, a font size that is difficult to change for most IE users etc. http://homepage.ntlworld.ie/spartanicus/temp2.png SignatureSpartanicus >>I just put online the complete page that causes problems : >>http://tschinfo.free.fr/test.html > > I'd say you've got far more urgent problems to fix like overlapping > content, a font size that is difficult to change for most IE users etc. > http://homepage.ntlworld.ie/spartanicus/temp2.png Wow! That rendered a LOT better than it does with Mozilla v1.7.12. Image 1 shows the page with my usual minimum font size set (15 px). Image 2 is without the minimum size. Image 1: <http://twosohnens.us/test/test-mz1.png> Image 2: <http://twosohnens.us/test/test-mz2.png> Signaturejmm (hyphen) list (at) sohnen-moe (dot) com (Remove .AXSPAMGN for email) Jim Moe a écrit : > Wow! That rendered a LOT better than it does with Mozilla v1.7.12. > Image 1 shows the page with my usual minimum font size set (15 px). > Image 2 is without the minimum size. > Image 1: <http://twosohnens.us/test/test-mz1.png> > Image 2: <http://twosohnens.us/test/test-mz2.png> I solved the problem ! The problem was that the linked css stylesheet was not reloaded by some customers ! Theses customers use a proxy that seems not to refresh its cache correctly ! For information, I had put the css stylesheet online 2 weeks ago and it was still not reloaded ! The solution : I created another stylesheet and linked the asp pages to this new one. And it works ! So : XP SP1 was NOT the problem neither IE 6.0.2800 but the PROXY !!! Thanks a lot for your help ! >> Wow! That rendered a LOT better than it does with Mozilla v1.7.12. >> Image 1 shows the page with my usual minimum font size set (15 px). [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > >I solved the problem ! Jay. >The problem was that the linked css stylesheet was not reloaded by some >customers ! Oh, so you've chosen to ignore the real problems, oh well, we tried. SignatureSpartanicus > Jim Moe a écrit : > [quoted text clipped - 3 lines] > > I solved the problem ! I don't think so. > The solution : I created another stylesheet and linked the asp pages to > this new one. > And it works ! No, it doesn't. <URL:http://kchayka.c-net.us/test/screenshots/tschinfo.png> I have difficulty believing that this is the way you intended it to render. It's nasty. But that's not really surprising, considering the quality of the code. SignatureReply email address is a bottomless spam bucket. Please reply to the group so everyone can share. The problem is that the style "LigneTableau_Noir_SansHauteur" seems not to be considered for these users. The whole cells are without any style : no left border of 1px, items not centered, and link in blue (default) insted of black like the class "LigneTableau_Noir_SansHauteur a.lien" is intended to do... > The problem is that the style "LigneTableau_Noir_SansHauteur" seems not > to be considered for these users. > The whole cells are without any style : no left border of 1px, items > not centered, and link in blue (default) insted of black like the class > "LigneTableau_Noir_SansHauteur a.lien" is intended to do... You're not quoting, and replying to the wrong message. Once more: http://www.safalra.com/special/googlegroupsreply/ SignatureEls http://locusmeus.com/ Sonhos vem. Sonhos vão. O resto é imperfeito. - Renato Russo - Now playing: Mr. Big - Daddy, Brother, Lover, Little Boy (The Electric Drill Song) Excuse me but I simply use the functionnality of google groups (Reply). It's very simple to follow the conversation in GoogleGroups, and I think it's completly useless to quote all messages, it just make the page longer and not pleasant to read. I've been using GoogleGroups since several years and nobody never made such remark. Anyway, I think also that we are far away for the original subject... Els a écrit : > > The problem is that the style "LigneTableau_Noir_SansHauteur" seems not > > to be considered for these users. [quoted text clipped - 12 lines] > Now playing: Mr. Big - Daddy, Brother, Lover, Little Boy (The Electric > Drill Song) > Excuse me but I simply use the functionnality of google groups (Reply). As mentioned at the link you have been pointed to - Google Groups' basic reply link is considered broken. > It's very simple to follow the conversation in GoogleGroups, Not everybody uses GoogleGroups, and it suffers from the problems of messages arriving out of order just like any other Usenet service. > and I think it's completly useless to quote all messages, it just make the > page longer and not pleasant to read. Most of the rest of us disagree and would appreciate you conforming to the norms of this community... ... which includes not top posting. http://www.allmyfaqs.net/faq.pl?How_to_post SignatureDavid Dorward <http://blog.dorward.me.uk/> <http://dorward.me.uk/> Home is where the ~/.bashrc is Okay I apologize. Now, if anyone had any ideas about my problem, that would be cool because I don't know what to answer to my customers... Thanks ! David Dorward a écrit : > > Excuse me but I simply use the functionnality of google groups (Reply). > [quoted text clipped - 19 lines] > David Dorward <http://blog.dorward.me.uk/> <http://dorward.me.uk/> > Home is where the ~/.bashrc is [top post corrected] > Els a écrit : >> [quoted text clipped - 9 lines] > > Excuse me but I simply use the functionnality of google groups (Reply). Please don't do that. Just use the reply function that is demonstrated at the above link. Also, please don't top post. In this newsgroup we read from top to bottom (and from left to right). > It's very simple to follow the conversation in GoogleGroups, Only if you read entire threads, which is fine if you don't have anything else to do. Most of us read Usenet through proper newsreaders, and have ours set to only display new messages, since we'd have no time for our actual lives anymore if we'd have to re-read all the messages we've already read. As an example: I read and post in about 13 newsgroups about web design. Do you really think I always remember what was said in a message of two hours ago? > and I > think it's completly useless to quote all messages, it just make the > page longer and not pleasant to read. You're free to think that way. However, if you want answers from the professionals here, best adjust to the regular Usenet standards. > I've been using GoogleGroups since several years and nobody never made > such remark. That seems very unlikely. If you really have been using GG that long, you would have noticed there is a convention on Usenet, which is repeated many many many times in various ways. Don't tell me: you've never heard of the golden Usenet rule "lurk for about 2 weeks in a new group before you post, so you will know what the accepted way of posting is" ? > Anyway, I think also that we are far away for the original subject... That subject is dealt with in the other subthread, where I posted asking what it is SP1 visitors don't see, and where I said I don't have SP1. If you'd reply there, in the correct manner, quoting enough to make the post in itself understandable, sooner or later one clued SP1 user will come along saying what the problem could be. (or at least, there is a chance such user does so ;-) ) SignatureEls http://locusmeus.com/ Sonhos vem. Sonhos vão. O resto é imperfeito. - Renato Russo - Now playing: Magnum - Young And Precious Souls >It's very simple to follow the conversation in GoogleGroups, Then wait for an answer from someone on GoogleGroups. If you _want_ help, make it easy for people to help you. Post a URL to your code on the same server that you're using. Post a useful message with the quoting conventions that others use, not those you think ought to be used instead. You are of course at perfect liberty to do whatever you wish. So are we. > >It's very simple to follow the conversation in GoogleGroups, Irrelevant: the Netiquette, established over years on Usenet, hasn't suddenly changed because GG have cobbled-up a perverse interface which, by default, flies in the face of several fundamental rules of the netiquette. This is basically the reason that I killfile GoogleGroups (with a few exceptions for specific people where my wish to communicate with them is stronger than my despair for GG). > Then wait for an answer from someone on GoogleGroups. Quite. And anyone coming into Usenet from GG who presumes to lecture the Usenet regulars on how to use newsgroups, deserves hurled into a deep pit, frankly. > You are of course at perfect liberty to do whatever you wish. So are > we. Amen, and festive greetings to you. Alan J. Flavell a écrit : > > >It's very simple to follow the conversation in GoogleGroups, > [quoted text clipped - 17 lines] > > Amen, and festive greetings to you. Thank you for all your responses, it's very constructive... Merry christmas to you also ! > I created a CSS that work fine on my IE 6.0.2900 (SP2) but I'm having > customers that have problems with it and they're on IE 6.0.2800 > (SP1)... > The problem looks like if the stylesheet (in particular the class > LigneTableau_Noir_SansHauteur) was ignored. Be aware that using underscore characters in class names is likely to lead to grief. Underscores are permitted according to css 2.1, but not according to css 1.0 or css 2.0. What this means is that most browsers will simply ignore those rules entirely. My guess would be that Microsoft changed the supported characters in css identifiers between the different versions of IE. >Be aware that using underscore characters in class names is likely to lead >to grief. Underscores are permitted according to css 2.1, but not according >to css 1.0 or css 2.0. Underscores are permitted as per the CSS 2.0 errata. The pedants will complain loudly that errata aren't normative, but that's a point that pragmatists can safely ignore. >What this means is that most browsers will simply >ignore those rules entirely. Name a few. >My guess would be that Microsoft changed the supported characters in css >identifiers between the different versions of IE. You're wrong. SignatureSpartanicus > Be aware that using underscore characters in class names is likely > to lead to grief. Underscores are permitted according to css 2.1, > but not according to css 1.0 or css 2.0. A long and sorry story. I'll try not to re-open the wounds too wide again, > What this means is that > most browsers will simply ignore those rules entirely. I think you're mistaken by "most". I'd surmise "some" older browser/versions which implement CSS2 classic. > My guess would be that Microsoft changed the supported characters in > css identifiers between the different versions of IE. To the best of my recollection, it was the exact opposite. MSIE, as usual, disregarded the mandates and guidelines for handling errors, and tempted authors into coding underscores, which were not at that time permitted. Subsequently, the W3C tried to rewrite history by smuggling a substantive change into the CSS2 specification via an errata - something which *ought* never to happen (they could/should have defined a new version of CSS, let's say 2.01). The best compromise which you as an author can follow is to avoid using underscores in this context. If you are a browser developer, on the other hand, you'd need to compromise, and accept underscores - despite the fact that CSS2 classic declared them to be invalid, and thus the error handling guidelines would call for any such rule to be skipped. >> What this means is that >> most browsers will simply ignore those rules entirely. > > I think you're mistaken by "most". I'd surmise "some" older > browser/versions which implement CSS2 classic. Ok, fair enough. Most sensible browsers will simply ignore the rules in the HTML that was posted, but that's because of the span tag being in a silly place, not because of the underscore. > >> What this means is that > >> most browsers will simply ignore those rules entirely. [quoted text clipped - 5 lines] > HTML that was posted, but that's because of the span tag being in a silly > place, not because of the underscore. Are dashes permitted in classes and IDs? SignatureDeeDee, don't press that button! DeeDee! NO! Dee... > Are dashes permitted in classes and IDs? Yes. SignatureEls http://locusmeus.com/ Sonhos vem. Sonhos vão. O resto é imperfeito. - Renato Russo - Now playing: Jethro Tull - Aqualung |
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