Opera 8 bug - please confirm

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Sander Tekelenburg - 29 Jul 2005 23:22 GMT

See <http://santek.no-ip.org/~st/tests/CSS/Opera/align.php>.

Would appreciate confirmation that this is a bug in Opera, not my
mistake.

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Sander Tekelenburg, <http://www.euronet.nl/%7Etekelenb/>

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Els - 30 Jul 2005 00:23 GMT

> See <http://santek.no-ip.org/~st/tests/CSS/Opera/align.php>.
>
> Would appreciate confirmation that this is a bug in Opera, not my
> mistake.

If you make your code standards compliant (get rid of vspace, hspace,
put a div between the <body> element and the images, add the type
attribute to the <style> element and get rid of the align attribute on
the first image), Opera doesn't show the image twice.
The CSS equivalent of align="right", is float:right.
And yes, if you add style="float:right;" to that first image, you get
to see it twice again. I find that logical though, as a floated image
can't at the same time be positioned (fixed, relative or absolute).

Trying this code in Opera, Firefox and IE, shows 3 different results.

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Els http://locusmeus.com/
Sonhos vem. Sonhos vão. O resto é imperfeito.
- Renato Russo -

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Sander Tekelenburg - 30 Jul 2005 02:27 GMT

> > See <http://santek.no-ip.org/~st/tests/CSS/Opera/align.php>.

[...]

> The CSS equivalent of align="right", is float:right.

Ah! Of course. *That* was my mistake. I mixed up float with position. I
just need to set float to none to then be able to fixed position the
image. Thanks!

> And yes, if you add style="float:right;" to that first image, you get
> to see it twice again. I find that logical though, as a floated image
> can't at the same time be positioned (fixed, relative or absolute).

Right.

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Sander Tekelenburg, <http://www.euronet.nl/%7Etekelenb/>

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Spartanicus - 30 Jul 2005 00:52 GMT

>See <http://santek.no-ip.org/~st/tests/CSS/Opera/align.php>.
>
>Would appreciate confirmation that this is a bug in Opera, not my
>mistake.

This is a ridiculous hodgepodge of invalid presentational HTML under a
Strict doctype.

Under CSS 2.x there are 3 mutually exclusive positioning schemes
http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/visuren.html#positioning-scheme
Under the current rules attempting to float *and* absolutely position an
element is daft, browser behaviour in such a case is undefined.

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Spartanicus

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Sander Tekelenburg - 30 Jul 2005 02:30 GMT

In article
<dufle1pifine728s2anb5j7e2n3okkk9ag@news.spartanicus.utvinternet.ie>,

> >See <http://santek.no-ip.org/~st/tests/CSS/Opera/align.php>.
> >
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> This is a ridiculous hodgepodge of invalid presentational HTML under a
> Strict doctype.

Ah, yes. You're right. Sorry about that. I'm building a site. Things
behaved as they should in iCab, Opera, Mozilla and Safari. But Explorer
(both Win and Mac actually) screwed up big time. So I changed some
things to make Explorer at least display the site in a *useable* manner,
which required giving up competely on some fixed positionionig in IE and
then using the ALIGN and V/-HSPACE attributes to a specific image. I
then forgot to change the doctype declaration to Transitional and mixed
up float and fixed positioning. For the site I use external CSS of
course - when setting up examples like this I find it more comfortable
to use inline CSS, but I simply forgot the TYPE attribute to STYLE.

So, sorry about the mess. Blame Microsoft ;(

Corrected code at
<http://santek.no-ip.org/~st/tests/CSS/Opera/align3.php>. And
<http://santek.no-ip.org/~st/tests/CSS/Opera/align2.php> to show what i
was after.

Opera indeed behaves as it should. iCab Mozilla and Safari apparently
were trying to be too helpful...

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Sander Tekelenburg, <http://www.euronet.nl/%7Etekelenb/>

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Spartanicus - 30 Jul 2005 07:35 GMT

>For the site I use external CSS of
>course - when setting up examples like this I find it more comfortable
>to use inline CSS

In-document CSS is preferred for posting examples here, it saves us from
having to open and look at 2 or more files.

><http://santek.no-ip.org/~st/tests/CSS/Opera/align2.php> to show what i
>was after.

You don't need the presentational hodgepodge or a transitional doctype:
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/spartanicus/sander.htm

Note that I've also changed the positioning of the image since your
original positioning relative to the right viewport edge didn't scale
properly when the viewport width was narrowed.

>Opera indeed behaves as it should. iCab Mozilla and Safari apparently
>were trying to be too helpful...

Again: browser behaviour for your original code is undefined as per the
spec, thus the browsers are neither wrong nor right.

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Spartanicus

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Sander Tekelenburg - 30 Jul 2005 16:54 GMT

In article
<i77me1dr1si85snget95p7b7bib90i4193@news.spartanicus.utvinternet.ie>,

[...]

> In-document CSS is preferred for posting examples here, it saves us from
> having to open and look at 2 or more files.

Exactly.

> ><http://santek.no-ip.org/~st/tests/CSS/Opera/align2.php> to show what i
> >was after.
>
> You don't need the presentational hodgepodge or a transitional doctype:
> http://homepage.ntlworld.com/spartanicus/sander.htm

Ah, right. Good to know.

(Doesn't 'work' for the actual site though, where this structure is
itself within a float. Looks like I narrowed it down too much in my
example. I'll see if I can change the approach on the site. Would be
nice to not have to use presentational mark-up.)

Thanks for your help!

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Sander Tekelenburg, <http://www.euronet.nl/%7Etekelenb/>

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Spartanicus - 30 Jul 2005 17:17 GMT

>> You don't need the presentational hodgepodge or a transitional doctype:
>> http://homepage.ntlworld.com/spartanicus/sander.htm
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>(Doesn't 'work' for the actual site though, where this structure is
>itself within a float.

Shouldn't be a problem, specify "position:relative" on the float to make
it the containing block.

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Spartanicus

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Webmaster Forum / HTML, CSS, Scripts / CSS / July 2005

Opera 8 bug - please confirm