adding commas to quote elements

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Marek Mänd - 30 Oct 2004 21:15 GMT

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Jan Roland Eriksson - 30 Oct 2004 22:57 GMT

><style type="text/css">
>q:after{content:',"'}
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
><q>consumers expect to create generated content via CSS where there
>would be no comma right after HERE</q>

It's too late in the evening for riddles; what are you getting at?

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Rex

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Marek Mänd - 31 Oct 2004 00:40 GMT

>><style type="text/css">
>>q:after{content:',"'}
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
>>would be no comma right after HERE</q>
> It's too late in the evening for riddles; what are you getting at?

I want comma added before "claimed" but not comma added after HERE.
I dont want to use classnames.
If after quote end tag there is no opening tag, but a textnode
I want to add comma so it becomes

"This will be the shame of CSS," claimed

If after quote end tag there is no texnode following,
or there is a closing tag of the outer element or
there is new opening tag
I want to add fullstop. And fullstop after the "-quotes
but comma inside the "-quotes.

And do that with css generated content. That the browser itsself will
have the intelligence to add commas for me.

I think this is far beyound the capabilities of css but I need
confirmation for that.

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Harlan Messinger - 31 Oct 2004 01:10 GMT

>>><style type="text/css">
>>>q:after{content:',"'}
[quoted text clipped - 5 lines]
>
>I want comma added before "claimed" but not comma added after HERE.

So put in a comma.

>I dont want to use classnames.
>If after quote end tag there is no opening tag, but a textnode
[quoted text clipped - 10 lines]
>And do that with css generated content. That the browser itsself will
>have the intelligence to add commas for me.

Commas in quotations aren't any more a function of CSS than commas
anywhere else, or any other punctuation marks. I suspect that you're
getting the idea that it *would* be from what you've read about using
CSS for the quotation marks, but *that* was really just a bunch of
silliness in the first place. If markup and CSS were appropriate for
punctuation, then HTML ought to have contained the full compliment of
structural elements that involve punctuation: <sentence>,
<relative-clause>, <exclamation>, etc. To have just one construct
that's supposed to automate the punctuation for you, while leaving the
rest of it to be handled directly in the text, was absurd.

>I think this is far beyound the capabilities of css but I need
>confirmation for that.

It is.

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Harlan Messinger
Remove the first dot from my e-mail address.
Veuillez ôter le premier point de mon adresse de courriel.

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Jan Roland Eriksson - 31 Oct 2004 01:41 GMT

>>><style type="text/css">
>>>q:after{content:',"'}
>>></style>
>>><q>This will be the shame of CSS</q> claimed Marek Mänd and added that
>>><q>consumers expect to create generated content via CSS where there
>>>would be no comma right after HERE</q>

>> It's too late in the evening for riddles; what are you getting at?

>I want comma added before "claimed" but not comma added after HERE.

So, use appropriate markup that will parse itself into a usable
structure for your stylesheet to work on.

This, what you are asking about (now), is as simple as pi.

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Rex

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Stan Brown - 31 Oct 2004 04:14 GMT

"Marek Mänd" <cador.soft@mail.ee> wrote in
comp.infosystems.www.authoring.stylesheets:

>I want comma added before "claimed" but not comma added after HERE.
>I dont want to use classnames.

And you shouldn't. The comma is content, not presentation. If it
belongs in your text, it belongs in your text _not_ slipped in by
CSS.

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Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
http://OakRoadSystems.com/
HTML 4.01 spec: http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/
validator: http://validator.w3.org/
CSS 2.1 spec: http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/
validator: http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/

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Jukka K. Korpela - 31 Oct 2004 08:47 GMT

> q:after{content:',"'}

In addition to the issue of adding commas or full stops or whatever
(which you could handle by using classes, thereby creating extra
complication into the markup), it is remarkable how people manage to add
_wrong_ quotation marks when they try to use <q> and generated content.

The Ascii quotation mark " is not a correct quotation mark in English, or
in any other human language. It has been used for some decades due to the
restrictions imposed by typewriters and early computers, but why would
you use elaborated modern techniques to generate the dull and wrong
Ascii quotation marks? You can use them much simpler, and much more
reliably simply by typing them into document content, as you type commas,
full stops, semicolons, quotation marks, and other punctuation - no need
to rely on CSS _and_ on support to the <q> element (which is being phased
out in XHTML 2.0, by the way).

It's not just a matter of casual mistakes, or a matter of simplistic
examples. Even the CSS 2.0 specification, and even the CSS 2.1 draft (or
"proposed recommendation", if you wish to make it sound more official),
the examples (using the quotes property, but this is a technicality)
manages to get _both_ examples (English and Norwegian) wrong
( http://www.w3.org/TR/CSS21/generate.html#quotes-specify ).
So if _they_ get this all wrong, authors can hardly be expected to do
much better.

Summary: Don't do quotes in CSS. If you don't know orthography and
typography, use Ascii quotation marks " (and Ascii apostrophes ' as
single quotation marks) throughout. If you do, write the correct
quotation marks into HTML documents in a suitable manner, such as
directly utf-8 encoded data, or character references, or (in some cases)
as entity references. But make sure you know the correct punctuation;
check it from reliable references. And don't do quotes in CSS.

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Yucca, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/

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Stan Brown - 31 Oct 2004 16:00 GMT

"Jukka K. Korpela" <jkorpela@cs.tut.fi> wrote in
comp.infosystems.www.authoring.stylesheets:

>The Ascii quotation mark " is not a correct quotation mark in English, or
>in any other human language.

I disagree.

>Summary: Don't do quotes in CSS.

I agree.

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Brian - 31 Oct 2004 19:40 GMT

> <style type="text/css">
> q:after{content:',"'}
> </style>
>
> <q>This will be the shame of CSS</q> claimed Marek Mänd

Sadly for Marek Mänd, noone else really cared that s/he didn't like CSS.
Some even wondered if s/he was just trolling a little more, desperate to
start a "css sucks"/"no it doesn't" fight.

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Brian (remove "invalid" to email me)

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Lauri Raittila - 31 Oct 2004 20:22 GMT

in comp.infosystems.www.authoring.stylesheets, =?ISO-8859-
1?Q?Marek_M=E4nd?= wrote:

> <style type="text/css">
> q:after{content:',"'}
[quoted text clipped - 3 lines]
> <q>consumers expect to create generated content via CSS where there
> would be no comma right after HERE</q>

Your example is just plain stupid.

Make another example, using some form of XML intended for marking up
sentences and and subsentences, which are in HTML covered by , . etc.

Anyway, as said long ago, just becase CSS can't do everything, it is not
a failure. Just like you, you can't do everything, but you are not
failure.

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Lauri Raittila <http://www.iki.fi/lr> <http://www.iki.fi/zwak/fonts>

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Webmaster Forum / HTML, CSS, Scripts / CSS / October 2004

adding commas to quote elements